DT, the Pokes, and the Piper

[Oklahomaglory]

Facundo was 0-2 at PSU, he had 2-2 and didnt place due to 1 second riding time. Even though it feels like he underperformed compared to expectations, he did improve from his time on PSU.

Ryder - Bum shoulder all year, severely limited what he could, or couldn't do. Not reflective of his coaching at all. Its actually pretty great that he AA'd with that Shoulder.

Casey Swiderski kind of remained the same, with improved defense. But he is Big 12 champion this year, which he was not before. 

Def all 3 stay the same or improved at OSU than before.  

[alex1fly]

51 minutes ago, PSULou64 said:

I am wondering why everyone chalks up all the top prospects to PSU because they have "bags of money" to throw at guys even though that's just pure conjecture meanwhile DT's success at bringing guys in and flipping previously committed guys to okst. is because of his allure, coaching style, etc. and has nothing to do with with the fact that they have the deepest pockets of all programs?

Based on his ridiculous salary alone for an unproven coaching commodity I would say their had to be at least a little something there regarding what they are shelling out for these guys.

Zero reason to think PSU doesn't still have the deepest pockets. Not to say PSU isn't great at developing guys. Obviously they are. But...

-Cael has had ultra-wealthy backers for well over a decade. They literally set the framework for modern wrestling funding.

-PSU doesn't have to report out their financials in the same way as OSU due to differences in OK and PA state law. 

-NIL third-party review started in 2024, same year DT got hired, so DT will never have the financial flexibility Cael has been exercising for 10+ years without risking losing his job. 

-Cael made over a million in 2023-2024, and 2024-2025 according to PSU's own reporting. Slightly higher salary than DT. CStar supposedly makes more money in NIL than David Taylor does in salary. Tom Brands is 300k below DT in salary. 300k is not a ridiculous amount of money in sport coaching.

-Flips to OSU have said themselves that they wanted to wrestle for David Taylor, they grew up watching him, etc. Same reason so many flocked to Cael at the beginning of his coaching.

-DT wasn't unproven, he ran a successful youth club in preparation for coaching college.

Anyways who has the deepest pockets may never be known, but PSU has been doing it longer and doesn't have to tell anybody what they spend so... I'm gonna go with it's PSU until proven otherwise lol. 

[PSULou64]

1 hour ago, alex1fly said:

Zero reason to think PSU doesn't still have the deepest pockets. Not to say PSU isn't great at developing guys. Obviously they are. But...

-Cael has had ultra-wealthy backers for well over a decade. They literally set the framework for modern wrestling funding.

-PSU doesn't have to report out their financials in the same way as OSU due to differences in OK and PA state law. 

-NIL third-party review started in 2024, same year DT got hired, so DT will never have the financial flexibility Cael has been exercising for 10+ years without risking losing his job. 

-Cael made over a million in 2023-2024, and 2024-2025 according to PSU's own reporting. Slightly higher salary than DT. CStar supposedly makes more money in NIL than David Taylor does in salary. Tom Brands is 300k below DT in salary. 300k is not a ridiculous amount of money in sport coaching.

-Flips to OSU have said themselves that they wanted to wrestle for David Taylor, they grew up watching him, etc. Same reason so many flocked to Cael at the beginning of his coaching.

-DT wasn't unproven, he ran a successful youth club in preparation for coaching college.

Anyways who has the deepest pockets may never be known, but PSU has been doing it longer and doesn't have to tell anybody what they spend so... I'm gonna go with it's PSU until proven otherwise lol. 

So DT makes a much higher base salary and it is not heavily conditional on performance bonuses (just over 1 million base and he should clear at least another $110k for bonuses). Cael's base salary is around $315k with about $650k earned in performance bonuses. And comparing a youth clubs success to a d1 programs success is laughable especially with an if the PSU support he had while doing that.

PSU has 1.4 million that they split out in the program as they see fit although the wrestlers can make additional deals on their own. Based upon that alone there isn't the kind of money available that suggests the have the deepest pockets available especially when guys from PSU and guys who have gone other places said they got higher offers, in some case double that, of what PSU was offering. 

Just because CStar wrote something doesn't 1. make it true or 2. mean he wasn't just having fun with the fact that it was conjecture and wanted to make create more intrigue.

And lastly we are to completely believe the wrestlers who give their reasons for going to okst. As completely unmotivated by money but completely disregard the PSU wrestlers who say the same reasons for going to PSU? Sounds completely unbiased to me.

[OopsyDaisy1]

20 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

So DT makes a much higher base salary and it is not heavily conditional on performance bonuses (just over 1 million base and he should clear at least another $110k for bonuses). Cael's base salary is around $315k with about $650k earned in performance bonuses. And comparing a youth clubs success to a d1 programs success is laughable especially with an if the PSU support he had while doing that.

PSU has 1.4 million that they split out in the program as they see fit although the wrestlers can make additional deals on their own. Based upon that alone there isn't the kind of money available that suggests the have the deepest pockets available especially when guys from PSU and guys who have gone other places said they got higher offers, in some case double that, of what PSU was offering. 

Just because CStar wrote something doesn't 1. make it true or 2. mean he wasn't just having fun with the fact that it was conjecture and wanted to make create more intrigue.

And lastly we are to completely believe the wrestlers who give their reasons for going to okst. As completely unmotivated by money but completely disregard the PSU wrestlers who say the same reasons for going to PSU? Sounds completely unbiased to me.

I don't understand what the point of this argument is? If anyone is saying PSU or OSU are just getting top guys because of money, they're idiots. PSU obviously has a 15ish year history now of dominance. And there's no doubt young guys want to wrestle for DT and now see what that can do with 3 true freshmen champs. 

Arguing about who has more money to give out just seems like a waste of time. Both are very well funded. Both get wrestlers for lots of reasons other than money. 

[PSULou64]

1 hour ago, OopsyDaisy1 said:

I don't understand what the point of this argument is? If anyone is saying PSU or OSU are just getting top guys because of money, they're idiots. PSU obviously has a 15ish year history now of dominance. And there's no doubt young guys want to wrestle for DT and now see what that can do with 3 true freshmen champs. 

Arguing about who has more money to give out just seems like a waste of time. Both are very well funded. Both get wrestlers for lots of reasons other than money. 

I can tell by your short stint here that you have not been privy to all of the outrageous claims posted by psu haters and the outright garbage some people spew.  If you go through just the last few months of comments you'll see how biased, with lack of anything remotely resembling proof, people put out there.

[alex1fly]

 

2 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

I can tell by your short stint here that you have not been privy to all of the outrageous claims posted by psu haters and the outright garbage some people spew.  If you go through just the last few months of comments you'll see how biased, with lack of anything remotely resembling proof, people put out there.

Cmon man, if you're mad about people badmouthing PSU then why are you here badmouthing other athletes and staff? And claiming these kids are all lying about why they picked PSU or OSU or any other program, that's so offbase and rude lol. 

As to the finances. OSU and PSU head coaches make a comparable salary. PSU literally wrote the book on how to fund modern college wrestling, outfunding everybody else so hard that the NCAA was forced to abandon its amateurism arguments and then every college wrestling program followed their model. AND PSU is not accountable to the public with your funding mechanisms due to their quasi-private status. Y'all continue setting records every year... you're not a victim even when people talk smack. These are GOOD things for your program bro.

[PSULou64]

I didn't badmouth, I questioned why it's alright to badmouth the wrestlers who go to PSU for their reasons for choosing to go there, but no one questions the okst. Wrestlers reasons and never brings up money as a possible reason where they always make that a point, usually a main point, as why psu gets guys. 

None of us know how the PSU program money works but you all are sure they are throwing money at guys like no other program. Conjecture isn't proof.

And stating that paying the most decorated college coach, who has proven himself, the same as an unproven never coached before guy the same amount is ridiculous isn't badmouthing, it's true. Plus they may make the same in the end but the fact that 2/3 of what Cael makes is bonus driven, results based, and 90% of what DT makes is given to him no matter what makes a big difference.

[jackwebster]

2 hours ago, PSULou64 said:

None of us know how the PSU program money works but you all are sure they are throwing money at guys like no other program. 

I assume the NIL market works like other markets: each recruit has a market value set by a complex set of variables (i.e. the invisible hand). The recruit weighs the $$$ offers (which will vary from school to school based on specific needs, the team's coffers, projections, manias, etc) along with a hundred other wrestling and non-wrestling considerations and gets to a school. 

Each recruit and team then get to decide whether or not they made a good or bad deal. Based on this assessment, the process begins again, i.e. continues.

In short, we get a dynamic process where recruits and teams compete to efficiently navigate risk. Unless an outside force (e.g. NCAA) steps in to level the playing field, it's beautiful. Even small-time go-getters with a brilliant plan and balls can exploit a niche. 

 

Edited April 2 by jackwebster