wrestle87

Sorry, yes Missouri too, I knew I forgot one...though, after their performance this past weekend against Okie State my omission may have been justified were it intentional.

That's pretty darn good, and I did not realize that. At least assuming that their lineup they used against PSU is who they will be going with, they only have two wrestlers currently ranked in the top 8. Now, even if a few guys break through and outplace their current standing, which is possible (but also very possible that they don't), each of those teams in my mind has way more high placing firepower. Again, the ol' dual vs tournament situation. If i've got to pick a team I think will accumulate the most points in a head to head at the ncaa's situation, I would pick each of those teams to place better than Ohio State.

The topic is about placement at NCAA's. It is the oldest story in the book that good dual teams and good tournament teams are not the same thing.

That dude did have a bad day. I was watching that match and, while pulling for PSU, they were on the receiving end of a bunch of hometown calls that evening. One that comes to mind that's gotten minimal discussion is Bartlett's OT takedown...that really wasn't a takedown.

Did either of you catch the Okie State Mizzou match? THAT ref was out of position for like 5 different sets of backpoints.

I don’t argue that it was a nice move, whoever it was doesn’t change the rules around a pin. They showed his shoulders on the broadcast, they were nowhere close to both being in contact with the mat.

This is an astonishing debate, but I really don’t think it can be had enough, bc puberty sure as heck isn’t stopping anytime soon. How do you work around the notion that: 1) bad things happen, and people who are pregnant as a result of these terrible things are still required to have that child in some states? 2) Reproductive capability occurs ~ a full decade before feasible parenthood in our society today? Also, I definitely expect we will see businesses and homebuyers voting with their feet, lots of these anti-abortion laws have been on the books ready to go into affect since roe v. wade first came down. This is a reality that is going to really drag down a lot of different states. You will see major divestment from most of the population 40 and under.

And why no discussion and reconfirmation of what actually makes a pin? Truax had looots of daylight under his shoulder blade, and woods was completely glued.

Consistency is a problem for that crew, and they do have some good guys, all of their best guys on the may could just as easily get bounced before the blood round. They are very heavy with underclassmen, which would potentially be good, but their past couple cohorts of kids have bad trouble cracking that top top tier. Obviously, Sasso is a G, but he came in at that level seemingly. Development trajectory for Ohio State athletes hasn’t been groundbreaking in recent years. Being in a back and forth with Rutgers doesn’t put you at the top of the heap. They can certainly be in the running for a team trophy of some sort maybe, but, in spite of a recent dual victory against Michigan, which I think will be their peak performance for the year, I put all of the following teams ahead of them rather comfortably: In no particular order, NC State, Cornell, Okie State, Nebraska, Michigan, Iowa, Missouri, Penn State.

I regularly bag on the brands for some of their decision making and the way they run the program, but I think this is some elephant-sized hyperbole. We are witnessing a time where one program simply cannot be competed against, because they have something very special going on, and everyone else is competing for second place. I would say, if anything, the brands, probably Terry especially, have a penchant for wanting to help the kid who is down on his luck and/or incapable of totally controlling himself. I will go so far as to say they saved austin desanto many years in jail with the work they put in with him. I also would not chalk the ferrari saga up to blind desire to compete. I think they wanted to mentor/father in a way to make the world better, and it was tough to admit defeat. There are a handful of big letter programs in the country that have real legacies of producing consistent AA’s for more than a decade. They are Iowa, Penn State, Okie State, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Cornell. Of these programs, only two have transitioned from their founding figurehead coach. Yes I know Ohio State was good before Tom Ryan, but his arrival was a total regime change, not a continuation of the same tree. I want to include Minnesota here, but they are clearly not at the same level as when Robinson was the coach. The only other team to transition seemingly well from a head coach leaving has been Cornell, which leads me to believe that Mike Grey was just running the program behind the scenes anyway. As far as running a blockbuster program, which is under the biggest microscope in the sport, I’d say the brands are doing a pretty good job. They regularly turn average guys into AA contenders, and they do the spirit and the legacy of the program justice every year, even when it seems like they might stumble. Most importantly, it really seems like they graduate good young men, and legitimately develop character, probably as well as any other head coach.

Yeah, but the professorships aren't what bring in the money and allow them to maintain their OG status in the big ten television contracts...

Has Iowa ever been shutout at Carver?

I don't believe this will happen, but I give it a solid 35% chance, PSU has a history of underperforming in Carver, and the overtraining bug is definitely going around (ahem Missouri, Michigan, Iowa). While PSU looked ok against Ohio State, traveling plus a continued overtraining bite could certainly pull this match much closer than people expect. I don't realistically think it will go down that way, but I remember Mark Hall's Freshman year, that was exactly how that dual went down. Then PSU blew the doors off of NCAA's, but at least for this match, I think it has a 35% chance of being sneaky close.

This is a very smart comment, and I agree both coaches, and all top coaches have moved beyond the concept that dual meet performance is anything other than tertiary window dressing. Yeah, it's nice to win at home, but the whole schedule, as well as the way coaches structurally and competitively manage their seasons, is so overweighted for March, that I wouldn't be surprised to see this outcome either. As part of the structural thing, I think its important to note that being a college wrestling coach seems to be a much more year-round position than it was in it was ten years ago. A lot more press and hype is given to getting college age guys to medal at age-group worlds or to make senior teams than it used to be. Overall I think this is a great thing, but I believe the best coaches now budget their wrestlers' mileage on a 12 month basis rather than a 4-month basis.

Not unless Askren can mind-hack the team for his coach. I have a sneaking suspicion he’s a behind the scenes cornerstone to the long term success of that program.

If I only saw this one, I’d agree 100%, and I do think Missouri was straight flat soda today, but something good has happened to the okie state attitude this season, I think it is entirely due to coleman scott. Him showing up has somehow changed the chemistry in that room. Olejnik has been jiving with coleman’s techniques, and has had crazy swagger all year, and it's rubbed off on Plott and is starting to show on the other guys. They are starting to have expectations for themselves in a good way. The way they wrestle kinda reminds me of old iowa teams in a way.

They looked about as good as I can remember seeing an Okie State team look in a long time. Around this time of year from most years I can remember, they would typically be wrapped in miles of athletic tape, and would just be muscling through to some token 7th/8th matches for most of the best guys, with a Fix high AA here or there. That is not what they looked like today. If they keep it together like they showed up today, they can pose some real problems for a lot of people.

The last time a team was this passive I think they were being coached by Mahatma Gandhi.

And Elam....the 197 pounder, with the....2nd(?) takedown of the meet for mizzou?

In hindsight, that road trip out east really might not have been worth the squeeze for Missouri. They could be very road weary.

Were officials a "topic" for any match other than the PSU Ohio State Match?

Mocco using the exact technique that works well in freestyle, but automatically gives your opponent a scoring position in folkstyle is poor decision making.

What're the odds that Missouri gets to more than ten team points?

Mizzou is wrestling poorly, these refs also are not very good

This ref legitimately needs to remember what back points are, this dude is just eyeballing stuff nonchalantly from 30 feet away. He has potentially missed 10 back points so far across all these matches.