Jamie_Taco

So first it was competition, now it's because J'den's 5th place is better than Spencer's 6th place. Still waiting for you to answer my "J'den's best college wins" answer..

You're honestly bringing up freestyle accolades when talking about the best college wrestlers of all time? Brilliant lol. Also, when did J'den beat DT or Dake in college? I must have missed that. Since the quality of competition matters, as you said, who were J'den's best wins in college? True freshman Kyle Snyder, who he hasn't beaten since? In his three final appearances, Cox beat Nick Heflin, Morgan McIntosh, and Brett Pfarr. Not exactly murderers' row when you're trying to use his competition level as your reasoning. Here's another thing I forgot to mention: Hodge Trophies - Spencer 2, J'den 0 James E. Sullivan Award - Spencer 1, J'den 0 Spencer also did all of this with a pair of bum knees. If COVID held off two more weeks, Spencer is a 4xer and this isn't even a discussion but none of you want to admit that.

I'm honestly not sure. We better defer to Captain Hindsight, @scourge165.

Bet?

And your guys' obsession with Spencer Lee continues lol. Of the four wrestlers mentioned ahead of Spencer in this thread, only one would have a legit argument on having a better college career than Spencer and that's Bo. Forty percent of SL's wins ended in the first period, with 11 falls in under a minute. That means 40 of his 98 wins ended in less than 3 minutes and 11% of them ended in less than 60 seconds. To even fathom the idea that he's below J'Den, Zain, and Nolf in terms of a college career is truly laughable. Spencer dominated his opponents and got off the mat faster than anyone I can remember, but I get it, you guys don't like Iowa, so carry on lol.

LOL I am sure you were letting everyone know how bad the rankings were back in 1983. Scourge165, Harold, and Gable knew about Royce Alger's talent from day 1! Scourge165 knew the rankings were flawed and was arguing with everyone in '82 about Royce and how he should be a top-rated recruit. You also make it seem like Alger won his Junior National Title prior to committing to Iowa. You do realize that was the summer before his freshman year of college, right? The rankings had already been released and Royce had already committed to Iowa before winning his Junior National Title. Again, how easy is it for you to call out "flawed" rankings 30+ years later? That's the definition of hindsight, you dope . Also, wouldn't your argument mean that Gable and Iowa had to work harder to find the best talent, since you know, the rankings were flawed? No Flo Nationals, Who's #1, and so on like you say, so no just pulling up the interwebs to find and recruit the best talent. You actually had to have contacts, travel, and scout prospects yourself because as you said, you couldn't rely on the rankings. I am starting to question if you even remember the original argument here. Once again, you can just admit you're wrong and we can all move on. Gable didn't build his program with the nation's top recruits. That's a proven fact and I am sorry you don't want to accept that fact, for whatever reason lol.

If Nagao ends up in Iowa City and gets beat out by Teske, it's a good problem to have. I would bet good money that's not what happens though. Nagao has a higher ceiling and two more years of eligibility compared to Brody. It's a no-brainer to take him in if he wants to be a Hawkeye. The 2024 and 2025 lineup could look something like.. 125: Ayala 133: Nagao 141: Block / Rathjen / Transfer? 149: Chittum 157: Ferarri 165: Kennedy 174: Arnold 184: Ferarri 197: Ferarri HWT: Keuter PSU is dominating right now but that's a very salty lineup that would have a chance imo.

Now if only there were someone in Iowa City who can teach him a solid turn and pinning combo to go with his riding. Real certainly picked it up quickly.

Well, considering Iowa has money to throw around, yes, I think it makes sense. What else do you think they should use the money over a returning AA with three years of eligibility at a much needed weight? This basically negates the loss of Jesuroga, as Ayala and Nagao can man 125/133 for the next 3 years. Also, I am not going to believe the Nagao thing until it's official. Pretty sure he still has a trip left, no?

Also, are you saying Iowa should just not even try to compete with PSU? Cause it certainly reads that way. Why is Iowa even recruiting Angelo Ferarri? Why waste the money on the #1 overall recruit? Hell, why are they even training right now? It all seems like a total waste to only get 2nd place, right?

I look at Nagao as basically a HS recruit, as he still has three years of eligibility remaining, similar to when Desanto transferred. If they brought in Bernie for one year, I'd agree with you, but Nagao is definitely someone you want to spend money on if you can't get him. Just like Mesenbrink.

Also, don't believe the BS you read from that Mineo loser. The numbers he is throwing out are utter bullshit in an attempt to make Iowa wrestling look desperate. Just like when he said Kemerer was medically retiring from wrestling in 2021 and how Spencer tore his ACL and wasn't going to wrestling this year, only to see him wrestle a few hours later. It's glaringly obvious that Pat is a troll and likes to work up the Iowa fan base. That doesn't mean he's not full of shit 90% of the time, so everyone should consider the source.

Why? Iowa is Teske's third school. If anyone should understand, it's Brody.

Also, thanks for explaining what a silver platter means LOL. Again, where are you getting these statements? I never said PSU got anything handed to them on a silver platter, so where is that coming from? I said Iowa never recruited like PSU is currently recruiting and then provided the documented facts to back that up. You don't like the recruiting rankings from back in the day, and that's fine, but it doesn't make them any less real lol. Again, it's my facts (the rankings) vs your opinions. Pretty easy to poo on rankings after you know how it all panned out .

Holy shit. My "logic" is based on actual recruiting rankings. Yours is off your opinion 30+ years after the fact. Lol how TF is this so hard for you to grasp?

I also forgot to respond to this and couldn't just leave it lol. Again, where did I say anything about PSU not developing guys and saying it's all about the bag man? The fact is, combined with development, they are recruiting insanely well. Better than we've ever seen a program recruit at this level (and the senior level with NLWC). Just because the two programs and dynasties were built differently doesn't make one morally better than the other. Honestly, you seem to be the one with the insecurities about how PSU has built its dynasty.

Dude, I never said anything close to Gable just taking ragtag guys. Not at all. I posted the recruiting numbers for both coaches, which are what they are, even if you don't agree with them 30-40 years later. My first post in this thread showed that Gable had top recruits throughout his career. Not as many as you might think, but he obviously got top-rated kids to Iowa City. I also said Gable was a master motivator and great at evaluating and developing talent. Again, see Chris Campbell. This idea from some that he was recruiting like PSU is recruiting is what I am arguing against. And you are right that Iowa is #2 right now. They are #2 all-time behind Okie State and #2 currently behind PSU. Quite a ways behind in both, sadly (for me lol). However, this conversation really has nothing to do with that. Where was the PSU program ranked in the 80s and 90s?

Ah yes, so Gable was able to evaluate talent better than the rankings system and most coaches. Again, I already agreed with this, but we are talking about stockpiling the top HS recruits, which is based on a ranking system. It also helped that Royce was born and raised in Iowa City.

You're arguing it but have not done a single thing to prove it besides sharing a story you read about 30 years after his recruitment. I provided the actual rankings from 1983. It doesn't matter if you think they are wrong or not. They are the rankings. So I will ask one more time. Please show us ANY other ranking system from Royce's senior year that had him listed as a top recruit. Do it or just take the L. Also, who TF is arguing that PSU isn't destroying the field? I think we all agree there lol.

@scourge165 is also going with the ol "the rankings were wrong" argument to prove his point. How convenient to look back and make that determination after the fact lol. Again, show us literally anything from 1983 where Alger was listed as a top-rated HS recruit and I will admit I am wrong. You can't though lol.

Lol DERP

You were right about one story and one wrestler over a 21-year career . I thanked you for educating me but it does very little to prove anyone trying to say that Iowa stockpiled top recruits. If you think the ASIC All-American lists are comically bad, I encourage you to link us to a different ranking system from 1983 that had Alger on it.

I mean, we have to say that because again, he wasn't a top-rated recruit according to the people who actually ranked HS recruits back then. This isn't up for debate. If you want to say that Gable could evaluate talent and ability better than most, sure, I agree with you there, but he wasn't just taking the top recruits at the time. I didn't know that story about Ryan, so thank you for sharing. You can go add one more top wrestler to Gable's recruits. It still doesn't do anything to move the needle in terms of comparison to what's currently happening at PSU. I just proved this with documented facts.

Guessing?! Keep reading, bud.

I am not arguing, I am schooling. You enjoy yours as well. Go Wild and Timberwolves