OH-IO

IMO no, he's close .....i don't think Taylor wins 10 out of 10 times now if your referring to MM as "MAGIC MAN" i guess MM is better than MM.....just having fun my friend (jross) I think Taylor is and will remain 1 step ahead of MM

100% agree Too all those seniors...... yes I do believe Kolin and Luke had a Natty coming their way, still had to wrestle and avoid injury but if they were injury free (to a degree everyone is banged up come Nationals) and on their game/peaking than yes they would have finally won their D1 Wrestling National Championship!!! my thoughts....if some deserved a break (1 more year aka 5th year) than they all deserved a break!

you right Dake was very good at stalling and wrestling near the edge when it came to wrestling top tier guys, he was a defensive wrestling genius, in todays wrestling he would be hit with multiple cautions.... thus the reason once in college he was able to basically own Taylor, his defense was better than Taylors offense, plus they had wrestled so much together they knew each others style

great points gents, may i add.... Starr I do not believe wins a Natty his TRUE freshmen year, also its really unfair to compare him taking a RS when he had an absolute monster, someone at the time head and shoulders better than him in Mark Hall to contend with, if we look at Dakes Freshmen year at Cornell there are really good wrestlers for him to practice with but absolutely nobody there to contend with for starting 141..... to be even more fair Starr had a National Champion in Mark Hall and 3x finalist, lets be fair, I give Dake the edge in that he wrestled and won his true freshmen year but i also say this...he didnt have a challenge for 141 @ Cornell.... I could see it both ways Starr ahead of Dake (if he wins 5....IF) and I can also see Dake ahead of Starr...... really not fair on Starr to say he had to take a RS year and Dake didnt for this 1 simple reason....Starr had Mark Hall to contend with , Dake had (i have no ideal who @ Cornell) however if Dake went to Iowa there was a guy named Brent Metcalf and I believe Dake would have needed a RS year in that room.....Starr if memory is correct had Mark Hall 1x'mer and 3x'mer finalist, no chance he's coming in and taking over Mr. Hall I will contend this Starr does not win a Natty his true Freshmen year if we can also agree that while Dake did win a Natty, TFY (True freshmen year), his bracket at Nationals in 2010 was not necessarily a tough bracket, yes there was 2 other top tier guys....Reece, Montell & Dake but the bracket itself may have been the easier of all in 2010.... now a days there might be 3 National champions in a weight class

you got my vote...... that weight class is stacked for sure.......

i did so respectfully my friend

I am pretty certain Owings "cut" to 142??? kind of like a "vision quest" type moment

did anyone correct this? Taylor won 2 2012 & 2014 @ 165

dag on it "fishbane" you beat me to it....... I hear ya "Ched64", your right not many do that!!!

nice feedback!!!! Im starting to see some light in your thinking........ Starr is definitely right there... oh my I could not imagine 5 years of a B10 schedule, staying healthy and motivated that long takes a different type of engine (plus that wrestling room he's in and you know Cael had to get in there and throw his weight aroung, kind of like keeping the young bull in check), im very close "scourage165" to leaning with ya, lol

OK brother lets goooo make the call Blaze is in the greatest of all time list, what weight class do we put him in and who gets taken off (replaced by him)......refer to my list if you'd like....incredible talent, he is in the best of the very best ever, only thing left to do....place him in a weight class, take the lead "MPhillips" you know your stuff too! PRETTY CERTAIN "TUZZCAT" ALREADY HAD BLAZE WINNING MY FANTASY MATCHUP @ 135, "MPHILLIPS" ARE YOU CONFIRMING BLAZE AS THE GREATEST EVER @ 135??? "OH-IO"

maybe his (Dake's) feshmen year was it........ D. Caldwell the defending returning National champ was in Dakes weight class, Caldwell who took out Metcalf the year before had to FF out of the National Tourney, Many could have utalized a shudda, cudda wudda i get it Dake most likely is a runner up the year Caldwell was in his weight class........ nothing for nothing sometimes a little luck needs to be on yourside to win 4 NCAA D1 Championships,

that is some crazy talent right there....... insane even! i gonna guess and say that there is a good chance Blaze and Forrest will be battling it out for years, ALSO very possible that Duke and Bassett will eventually meet up and be similar....your all guess is as good as mine for what its worth I will go with Blaze and LaDarion having the most success out of this grouping (biggest factor will be injury free and whats that NCAA wrestling room like, Hooah)!

ok now i feel like an rookie.....top tier with that input lets do this i will give you the semi final bracket between them and I will throw in Eric Guerrero, Sorensen, TY Moore...... TOP SIDE (Semi 1 winner vs Semi 2 winner) BOTTOM SIDE(Semi 3 winner vs Semi winner) etc.....you my friend "TUZZCAT" are about to name the greatest 135lb finish it out for us, Hooah Top Side Semi #1 Pico vs Blaze Semi #2 Guerrero vs Sorensen Bottom Side Semi #3 Krivus vs Bouzakis (i literally flipped a coin between Bouzakis & Bono, i was stuck) Semi #4 (Ty) Moore vs Crookham

that is so crazy to me.... so BB really should be a Fresmen in college now, yet still has another year in HS? I am so confused, I really am!

Here is an new and improved version of my original.......BEST EVER PER WEIGHT CLASS (need a little flexibility gents 17 weight classes, now we can really hash it out, for the life of me i juggled 130, 135 & 140, someone with more wisdom figure that out professionally and with respect of course...do i put Kolat 135, do I put Fried @ 135 or do I put Taylor upto 135 and let you guys help me with 112, does Bono fit in their 130-140 in there?..... did the best I could and there aint no way am I gonna do this again next year or ever again, way too much talent coming thru the pipes! 103~ Stieber 112~ Taylor 119~ Lee 123~ TJ Jaworsky 125~ Suriano 130~ KOLAT OW~ "BEST OF THE BEST" 135~ (.........) 140~ Fried 145~ Nolf/Metcalf 148~ P. Smith 152~ Williams/D. Schlatter 160~ Marsteller/I. Martinez 165~ Hall/Jordan 171~ Phillips (you already knew gents) 189~ M. McIntosh/D. Hahn 215~ Snyder Big Boys~ Mocco/Steveson

good call i believe your right

great hook up soldier!!!!

extremely rare my brother!.... its kind of like there is a major difference between being a millionaire and a billionaire, if money was in seconds a millionaires time would be up in 11 1/2 days, now a Billionaires times would be up in 31 years!

BAC you know your wrestling my brother so nothing but repsect to you Marcus Blaze is an easy one, lets come back to him when he finishes this year he will definitely be in my top 10 Kyle wel I would love to say as #1 he is from my State (lol) but only wrestled 3, basically there was nothing left for him at the HS level, but if he would have stayed and won another one it would have been very hard for me to keep him off of a top 3......personally I think Phillips should have choosen a similar path, won 3 OH titles and left for an OTC maybe the timing wasnt right or maybe he just loved being with his friends as I do mine! Chris would have had a similar path with very similar results as Snyder IMO he really was that talented Gable Steveson I do have him Top 5 I believe..... (may I ask you this who would be your #1 heavyweight Mocco, Steveson, Rowlands, Snyder or Cox if we did a best ever at each weight) if we did it this way well than the others could never be top 10 best ever simply because they were even number #1 at their own weight....... in final the big boys have different skill sets needed to succeed in HS you got great horsepower and really good cardio your gonna win a title no doubt (eventually), you have those same assets in the lower and middle weights you be a solid wrestler, but your gonna need great hips.....a signature move or 2 or 3, you best understand how to feel the pressure from your opponent and learn when to counter, you must also understand how to CHAIN WRESTLE, win from the bottom and win from the top by riding, hand fighting is a must and level changes must happen, than you can expect to win a state title unless your in certain states where everyone understands this type of life, than you need a coach that scouts and understands his wrestlers, basically in the lower and middle weights you simply need so much more than great horsepower and really good cardio.....nothing bad nor nothing negative, its just a different skill set that is needed at the heavy weight than in the lower and midlle....on side note things have changed now a days the big boys need those qualities, just not so much in HS....... Much respect and no ill feeling BAC you know your stuff and I appreciate you firing back, there are alot of talented people on this forum....MY RESPECT TO ALL, HOOAH

with all do respect to BAC, to us and those like us, we all know Chris Phillips 195-1 IN HIGH SCHOOL nothing about college whatso ever should be figured in, heck now-a-days we got guys wrestling 7 years into their college careers, heck you give me healthy knees and some quick-twitch fibers back and put me in the PSU wrestling room i might AA lol.....(redshirts, Olympic year, Covid year, medical, and dad left mom), heck even the transfer portal is something new to me...... yes corey did CATCH chris and pinned him @ FILA CADETS, chris was well ahead tho (remember when Senior Ruth got caught and pinned at the Beast by a Sophmore from MSJ in MD)...also dont forget Chris destroyed Corey Peltier Later @ Ironman 9-5 (all point from Chris letting him up) BAC I respect you my friend but there really is a different life in states such as PA, MI, IA, OH, NJ etc when it comes to wrestling, there are high school wrestlers from these states that dont make it to states that would go elsewhere and possibly win state titles, I also think it is crazy that you can be 19+ years of age and still able to play sports in HS ......I will say this i tried to spread the top 10 around a litlle sure we could just go to all the lower weight guys, I was fair and respectful and really tried to give a portion to all weights not just the wrestlers who are 2 years ahead of others still wrestling in HS when they could actually be Soph's in college, i really cant imagine being 19 (close to 20) wrestling 13-14 yr old HIGH SCHOOL aged wrestlers and at a weight 100-150 (I did not hold that against anyone nor did I hold the fact that someone didnt wrestle outside his state which happens to be 1 of the best states for wrestling, this is the best HS wrestlers of all time and at 171 their was a kid from monroeville OH who went 195-1 in HS and I respectfully say this his HS career and how good he was to many place him as the best 171 wrestler ever, yes he lost 1 time to Ruth I believe Ruth lost nearly 20x in HS (once getting pinned after winning ironman) was also a 19 years old Senior @ Blair after an average career while in PA high schools (i believe 2 or 3 years and 1 @ Blair)........ If he is not even in your top 10 in OHIO than you are only including lower weights and maybe a few heavys.......chris changed where an entire state of wrestlers wrestled for 4 years in Ohio, nobody was scared of him, they just understood that if they wanted to win a State title they werent gonna do it at Chris's weight D3 or not!! Many believe chris could have won a State tile @ 171 in middle school, most believe he could have placed since 6th grade and we are not talking about 90lbs , OH-IO people know their wrestling

a buddy of mine sent this to me.......I called him and said hey i am on this wrestling forum and I did a phantom Kolat vs Bassett and included a statement about has anyone taken over Kolat as the greatest HS wrestler ever, he set me straight pretty quick......"NO" he said now this cat knows his stuff, i than mentioned I did a Top 10- 30 list of best HS wrestlers ever and I mentioned Chris as my #2, he too thought Chris was not a #2 but definitely top #10, he turned me onto the following video.....check it out Chris was a 2x CADET FS National Champion 2007 & 2008 unscored upon! listen to what he says he needs to do to be a better wrestler...so humble while I must admit maybe I am off with my #2, without a doubt he is TOP 10........

"Tuzzcat"..........maybe someone could do a 1950 - 2015 decade than a 2015 - current so many wrestlers with so much talent, your right about those mentioned

i hear ya loud and clear and you may be more right than I....... obviously kids today have so many more options to get better (youtube comes to mind without even leaving your home), wrestlers today are most likely better than "yester-years", same with baseball, football etc...... i am only talking about HS years so what they did in college is not a factor in my thinking, and as for Chris Phillips, its not just the light weights who deserve the recognition imagine being a 13/14 year old freshmen and wrestling 160/171 in HS in PA, OH, IA, MI, OK etc.... not only that wresting against the absolute best in the country at such weight and not even giving up a takedown and beating everyone, I witnessed OH wrestling from 2000-2015 I watched them all and what I saw was Phillips was the best of the best, most just stayed alive not to get pinned or tech, yes I too believe Chris was as good hs 9th & 10th grade years as his 11 th & 12th, to me the biggest factor he got tired of opponents not wanting to wrestle him, I believe he also got tied of traveling the country (Cadets) only to destroy everyone, by the time 11th grade came around it seemed very few wanted to even try to wrestle him, its like he had no competition so he stopped the National scene hence his dropping as the top dog at his weight/senior class, was not because of his talents it was because he stopped traveling during the offseasons when their was nothing left to prove...think what you wish, but when a wrestler causes so many to stay completely away from a certain weight class thats speaks loudly....Chris Phillips was and absolute monster as good if not better than anyone ever from 160-171.......I am certain both Steibers, their coaches, Cam and Colin Palmer would agree (Palmer would go head to head with Phillips when Phillips was in Middle school Chris would get the best of the matches, one time Palmer told me he was so excited simply because he finally took chris down) for me the Phillips young man is the best HS wrestler ever 160-171..... no matter the year he peaked he didnt get worse, wrestlers simply stayed away from his weight class!

"Paul158" encouraged me to do so.... again just for fun and only my 2cents, I am an older wrestler nearing 60 years of age, I still love the sport as much today as i did "Back in the day" #1 Kolat #2 Phillips & Fried #3 Martseller/Joe Williams #4 Metcalf/Schlatter #5 Suriano #6 Mocco/Steveson #7 Taylor #8 Mike Johnson/Damion Hahn #9 Jaworski/Hall #10 Steiber/Pat Smith #11 LEE & NOLF (both would be top #3 ....if they won 4, so close) #12 Bo Jordan/Ty Moore #13 David Carr/Lincoln McIlrary #14 Gable (64 matches only in HS sets me aside from top 10) #15 Sheldon Thomas/Daton Fix #16 HELEN MAROULIS #17 Cory Clark/Jay Borschel #18 Eric Juergens/Johnny Hendricks #19 Sanderson/John Meeks #20 Eric Guerrero/ Jeff McGinness/Morgan McIntosh Of Course I believe Kyle Snyder is top side IF he would have wrestled all 4 years in Maryland, the Woodbine native would have easily along with LEE and NOLF shook up my top 5, LEE with his knee injury and NOLF with his 6-4 set back to Diehl