ThreePointTakedown

I think that's a bit too cynical. Some voters will be swayed one way or the other through the debates. I'll bet they were at the last one. So this one too. How many, is the question. Probably far fewer than will be in actuality. But that is the power of hope. 'I was convinced by this person and I'm not an idiot. Surely others will see the light and support my candidate too.' That 'logic' swings both ways and often not for the best reasons. Flawed thinkers, we are.

This didn't age well.

Death of every ethnic culture is inevitable. Culture changes. You can read about the 'culture' of America from 100 years ago and how its vastly different to today. If you want to preserve a culture in its pure form there can be no mixing in of any outside genetics or influence. You get awfully close to practicing a form of Eugenics if you go too far down that road. Not ideal. Its going to happen whether you want it or like it or not. No amount of birth rate or fertility rates will change it. People will move away. Others will move in. That 'culture' as you put it will eventually disappear as it currently stands. To be replaced with a similar but different one. Hopefully, having excised any negative aspects and gained more positive influences to that which makes up the 'culture'. We only get better when we mix.

Why do you have to do that? You have not made your point very clear in my opinion. I am offering you an opportunity to do that. Can you? Do you want? Is it even possible? Or are you happier to make snide remarks rather than expand on your thought?

Good. Oil is a hugely profitable and hugely subsidized industry. If its going to die. Let it. The bike industry will take off for a minute then electricity will and nuclear power will finally have their day and the planet can stop choking to death. Why are people that are against citizens getting welfare not against oil getting it too?

Exactly what cowards say when they know they've lost

Can I ask where do you get your information on the topic of trans people? Their health concerns and needs? What their lives have been and are currently like? Not gotcha questions, seriously wondering. Because I've offered links to NIH papers and articles about how vulnerable people, especially youth, of this group are and have been. Does it bother you at all that forcing this group from being allowed into society, puts them in danger(like other groups in the past black, asian, gay)? Or do you not think the danger of bowing to their needs is greater than keeping them where they are now? Honestly try to answer those questions. No judgement if you don't even post them. Not interested in debating stats or anything. Just curious where you get your information. I think we've talking past each other for awhile and I'dl like to understand where you are coming from.

You haven't made it clear how anyone or anything is being infringed. No. Again, don't talk for a group of people for which you are not 100% certain are in agreement with your statement. Using the term 'vast majority' is so broad that it might as well be useless in this situation. Besides, XY people have been using womens' bathrooms and likely without anyone being the wiser. Which leads me back to a question I asked in previous posts, how do we determine who gets to be allowed because its already happening and how do we go about it? Genital checks at the door? Do XY people that can easily pass as female get a free pass? Where as XYs that don't quite fit the 'female' model that you have in your head, do they get turned away? Because like I mentioned before predators have and will continue to try to find ways to do what, I think you feel, trans women are trying to do. Firstly, trans women aren't. They're just trying to go to the bathroom. Your concern for predators being predators, I agree is a legit. That in no way justifies your conclusion that if trans women are allowed to use their preferred bathroom unencumbered, and again they already are in many cases, that it has or will lead to increased risk to XX people in womens' bathrooms/locker rooms. Explain to me the right to the use of one bathroom vs another or that certain people are not allowed in certain rooms that others are clearly allowed into for arbitrary reasons? Because that's what it sounds like your saying. Is it that XY people just can't be trusted in certain or all situations and need to be confined to their own areas for the greater good? Cuz I can see you trying to make that case. To your last paragraph: how is that at all a thing? Where is your right to use or share a bathroom? What freedom is that? Bathrooms are provided to you by law for convenience and/or emergency. You have no right to use or have one set aside for certain people based on sex or gender. Disability, sure. But you being comfortable as has been said in many 'freedom' or 'rights' conversations is not the concern of law makers. Go to the bathroom somewhere else or just get over it. If you are actually threatened. Then you might have a case. But your fever dream of what could happen is not enough. We have the worst case scenario of the gun control debate happening in our schools DAILY and no one on the conservative side is worried about feelings or comfort, obviously. And definitely not about safety or saving lives. Where does personal liberty start and end with regards to who is allowed in a public bathroom? This is a solution without a stated problem other than 'it gives me the willies'. No actual cases or trends that would lead anyone to believe what you're saying is actually a problem. If you're hoping to stop this problem before it starts you are OTHERISING them and you're telling these people you do not care if they live or die. Because that's what happens to vulnerable populations when they are hung out to dry. The get hurt or they hurt them selves at an alarming rate. Look it up. I'll give you a hand, 'Results: Trans and Other students had significantly higher rates of self-harm ideation and peer self-harm, in comparison to cis-gendered students. These Trans and Other students reported significantly higher rates of bullying and self-reported depression and significantly less support from teachers and staff at school, in fact these students did not know where to go to access help.' It doesn't stop when you leave school. I hope you know that. Especially if opinions like yours continue to be prevalent in society.

That is a fair point. But that is an easy way to shut down anything. 'A bad thing might happen, so we shouldn't do it'. Bad people will find ways to do bad things. If we keep trans people from being able to use the bathroom they feel comfortable with because bad people will do bad things. Then we are just punishing trans people. And as I've mentioned before, that excuse of 'bad people will take advantage of this new situation and prey upon x,y, or z people' have been used to oppose just about every group attaining equal rights in American history. Its not impressive and unimaginative and has been wrong EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Because bad people have already thought about this situation and have probably tried to take advantage of it. So should we sacrifice giving people equal rights vs bad people doing bad things?

Nope. This is exactly how these arguments go. Each time they get knocked down. Which they have. They move the goal posts and pivot their argument to a group they claim needs their help. Someone suggested that I am misogynistic that I am in favor of trans people winning human rights that it will be at the detriment of women. Funny that not many women think or say that. That women need to be saved from invaders and that the only ones that can stand up for them are men. I have never found that to be the case. In fact I think that is almost as misogynistic as you can get. Using women as a pawn to try to deny a group equal rights. This all says to me that you don't care for women except for how they can help you get what you want. Which is the denigration of a different group on their behalf. So no its not presumptuous. Pretty much on brand for ignorant people. They don't have much of an imagination. Its fight or flight and their reactions are easy to predict. This is a wrestling community, we've all seen it. No one is shocked except for the ones losing. But they never learn.

It isn't a mental disorder across the board. I thought I addressed that in a previous post. There is gender dysphoria but it is only a thing if it is, in fact, diagnosed by a professional(so not all people have it by default) and come with certain standards that not all Trans people fall within. To explain: NOT. ALL. TRANS PEOPLE. HAVE. GENDER. DYSPHORIA. as much as you might want them all to fall under the 'mental illness' umbrella. They don't. I do ramble. But I find it cathartic to engage with people with contrary points of view to mine. Although I was hoping for opponents with better... technique I guess. Y'all just recycle the same three tactics and hope it makes your point. It rarely, if ever, does. If you added my post to your comment it would be easier for people to connect the dots between your comment and mine. That might be by design. Because that is not at all what I did. I'll explain again.... Trying to deny equal rights to Trans People(ie, using whichever bathroom they see fit or necessary health care) for reasons as flimsy as, 'it will be dangerous for women, children, society, the economy, and/or everyone' without much or any evidence to support the claim is akin to those that fought against freeing slaves for EXACTLY. THE. SAME. REASONS. They were wrong then. They are wrong now. The difference is that the target has changed. The arguments haven't. But that is hardly surprising. I know you think that the emotional trigger of slavery will let you regain the high ground(you never had it if you're suppressing the rights of people in America) which is what you are advocating. You're privileged and you are trying to keep another group out of the club. Its sicken to have to have this conversation today. With all the information we have available. That someone could be so blissfully ignorant about how their actions and ideas could effect those around them. They do. But lets embrace that you made it to the party, however late your arrival. Cheers!

This is the next arc of the argument put up by conservatives. Still the same old song and dance, 'think of the women'. Not that, I imagine, you cared much about them before. Now that you have a 'common enemy' you get behind the cause of women. Shockingly disingenuous but also not surprising. I don't have to talk about this any more. I'll just let things play out. They will go the way of my opinions. There is not doubt in my mind. Its a guarantee. So I'll just leave you to squirm and yell into the void.

Would love UT but either would be a great foothold in Texas, south, SW, W. Thoughts?

I know 45's a moron. You know 45's a moron. I'll bet you feel 45's better for you and your situation than KH. That's fine. I think you're wrong but I don't know much about you to go into much detail. One side wants rich to get richer. If that's you and that's all you care about. Vote that way. Seems to be the case considering all the things we've talked about and how much empathy and compassion you have for those that don't look like you or hold your same values. The other side would like a little less inequality between those mentioned above and everyone else. Is it a more nuanced conversation? Yes. But I think that's where they lose you because you seem fairly black-and-white on certain topics. Unable or unwilling to narrow your brush at all to see how much damage you do with the opinions you hold. But no, I'm not a coward, again 45's just a moron.

In some states, receiving necessary health care. Using the bathroom they choose to identify with. You can't move away from areas with trans people. They live everywhere. My point, which you continue to miss, is that people in power shut off resources because they didn't want those they felt were unworthy to be able to use them. Example was black people in New York and Baltimore and other cities integrating public pools. Filling them in. Cutting off their nose to spite their face. Which is similar to the trans hysteria that is going on right now. That it seems you are suffering from as well. People moved away from cities to flee integration of black folk. They were scared racists with privilege and wealth that could afford to uproot themselves and move to the burbs. Those who couldn't or just didn't want to because they weren't racist, stayed. Then what happened when some black folks were able to gain enough wealth to move out the burbs? They were attacked, intimidated, priced out, or just denied for a long while. Continuing the age old practice of redlining. Put certain demographics into certain, less desirable areas. Much like the native Americans, unless we found gold or something else that we wanted. Then we moved them again. Or in this case built a highway through their neighborhood. How is it you are blissfully unaware of how often your take on this topic has come up, so similarly, in the past? Is it on purpose? Or are you just that ignorant or spiteful that you don't care? I could believe either at this point. Hope this helped

You always have. Not surprised. That's why you're a coward.

So nothing?

why are you?

Didn't someone just uncover a plot to pay right wing influencers to help 45 and hurt KH? Yes. Who bank rolled it? Russia. Why do you think that is? Because 45 will be tougher on Russia with sanctions and trade embargoes and... oh ya the war they are currently fighting against our ally. This is a joke. I laughed. Thanks.

Great question and one I hear from the conservatives, 'why do feel it is okay to push YOUR views on other people and insist they conform to your stance and the language you choose to use, but it isn't okay for others to turn around and do the same to you just the opposite opinion'? It was the same question and/or sentiment that has been used to justify all sorts of societal maladies such as the abolition of slavery, women suffrage, civil rights, gays in the military, and now trans rights. Sorry that your ideology forces you to see these PEOPLE as less than people and in so less deserving of equality. But you're wrong. At every step, in each of the above mentioned situations, you and people that espoused that same sentiment have been wrong. The next time something like this comes up, and it will, you'll still be wrong. Will you have learned? Hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. To answer the second part of the question. Because the opposite of giving someone equal rights is oppression. We don't do that here. Or better yet, we try not to. We still do quite a bit because people like you still have their hands on levers of power and decide who is worthy of equality and who isn't and still decide to hold people back for infantile reasons that are couched in the very question that you asked. "Funny part is...99%" not really an important point but I'll tackle it because this is going to be long anyway... This is a BS stat and indicative of how you see yourself and how much support you feel you have an issue. There is plenty of name calling on this site. Science: why is it you site and grasp onto one point of 'science' but ignore the other ones on this topic. There may be two ways X and Y chromosomes arrange but there is a variety of ways that they are expressed. If my memory serves we have already talked about XX people having genitalia that typically appears on people with XY and vise versa. These things aren't as cut and dry as you want or portray them to be. And digging your heels into the 'there's only two sexes' as if that is an answer to anything on this topic is childish and ignorant of all the information we currently have on the topic. And yes, denying people their dignity on the basis of 'science' as you put it is transphobic because of all the widely available information that tells you that holding that position is dangerous to trans people. It is. Regardless of your feelings. Denying them, out of whole clothe, the simplicity of using a bathroom they prefer to associate with is putting their lives in danger. You prefer the lives of your family and I understand that but you have to understand that making and holding to these imaginary rules(and bathroom rules are imaginary or at least quite flexible) put trans people in danger. You can, and I feel you have, said quite matter of factly that you don't care about the lives of trans people and that IS transphobic. You're so scared of them that you would rather see them die or come to harm than use the bathroom of their choosing. Those opinions do oppress people. Sorry you don't want to see it. But they do. Denying something that everyone else has IS oppression. There are victims. I am not one of them, but I am happy to stand up for them. But there are and will continue to be as long as people like you hold opinions like this. I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant by 'Civil Rights'. What I meant was, your opinion on this topic is similar to those used to try to keep the Civil Rights Act from being passed or Women's Suffrage or a myriad of other things that small groups had to fight society for to establish equal rights under the law. But what rights do they not have, right now some of them don't have the right to try to get specific forms of health care. That's a right isn't it? I know you can't say 'Yes' because it'll open up a whole can of worms you're not ready to talk about. But suffice it to say you're wrong again. I suggest you read this article. It articulates a position opposite yours that you should consider: Harvard Crimson This was fun, thanks.

You clearly don't understand the point of your argument if that is your take away. My point on this topic has always been that you are simply scared of what society will look like if trans people are allowed the freedoms that they are asking for. You are fighting against giving those freedoms. Freedoms that you have failed to prove are harmful in any way other than, 'its just common sense'. When you pose a straw man question as a rebuttal you are either too ignorant of how to have a conversation about this, too emotional and thus resorting to fallacious tactics(don't be embarrassed it happens to just about everyone that is losing an argument), or you're doing it on purpose. I'm happy to explain things so that other people can read this and hopefully do better. But we've gone round and round about this. You have offered nothing to indicate you understand or are trying to understand the situation of trans people. But are solely interested in rejecting the rights and requests of a vulnerable population. For what reason? You feel(emotionally) that it is dangerous. I disagree and there is plenty of information that backs me up. If we want to just leave it there we can. You are wrong in this situation and as I've pointed out your position mirrors that of countless similar situations in the past. You, mistakenly, think it will endanger society, women, and/or children if this group is allowed into the melting pot. Again, you're wrong. I can't stress that enough. If it makes you feel better to have a tantrum about it, go ahead. But every time to mention something about trans people or just about anything disgustingly disingenuous about a vulnerable population for the sake of you maintaining the feeling comfort with your place in life. I will ask you to prove what you say is true. If you can't handle that. Sorry not sorry.

You can try to prove your point or not. Its not my responsibility to disprove a negative. If you want to lay out your case, by all means...

What evidence convinced you?

Or is it?

Not addressing the point at all but pivoting to something else that justifies you keeping women in their place. How cosmopolitan of you! You can take another swing at actually addressing the point or I'll just assume you have no rebuttal and are just salty about it. Your point is unfounded. A replacement fertility rate is not something that we need or necessarily want moving forward. If there is one thing we are good at is exploiting an opportunity. If it turns out a desirable area to live/work is rife with opportunity, people move there to take advantage. And what does that do to the gene pool of that population? Diversifies it! Though the population might be shrinking, in the short term. The long term health of the species is in good shape because of diversity.