Alvarez can’t have another year…can he ?

[cowcards]

39 minutes ago, flyingcement said:

Alvarez wrestled the Reno TOC unattached and didn't transfer to OK State until January.  He wrestled four matches in January as an attached wrestler.  Maybe using that criteria he could have another year?

He competed during the 2nd half of the year. That rules out a hardship waiver. 

[1032004]

1 hour ago, cowcards said:

He competed during the 2nd half of the year. That rules out a hardship waiver. 

Well not too long ago junior college years counted against eligibility too

[cowcards]

52 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Well not too long ago junior college years counted against eligibility too

And that's a completely separate eligibility issue. Oklahoma State is D1. JCs are not. 

JUCO still needs a final ruling. All they have now is a pause on enforcement of that rule for a year. That could be ruled against and still count. Or none of it could count. Who knows. 

No one has a court case, to my knowledge, that would address his situation. Maybe they are planning to. But for now he doesn't fit the criteria mentioned as the reason for another year. 

[1032004]

14 minutes ago, cowcards said:

And that's a completely separate eligibility issue. Oklahoma State is D1. JCs are not. 

JUCO still needs a final ruling. All they have now is a pause on enforcement of that rule for a year. That could be ruled against and still count. Or none of it could count. Who knows. 

No one has a court case, to my knowledge, that would address his situation. Maybe they are planning to. But for now he doesn't fit the criteria mentioned as the reason for another year. 

Andrew Sparks apparently got approved for a medical despite wrestling in January at the Southern Scuffle.  I know there is debate about if that was still first semester, but Alvarez’s last match in 2022-2023 was 1/6 so he could probably make the same argument, as I believe classes don’t start at most schools until mid-January

[cowcards]

19 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Andrew Sparks apparently got approved for a medical despite wrestling in January at the Southern Scuffle.  I know there is debate about if that was still first semester, but Alvarez’s last match in 2022-2023 was 1/6 so he could probably make the same argument, as I believe classes don’t start at most schools until mid-January

2024 he wrestled after the midpoint of the year. 2023 he wrestled more than the allotted dates. 

For Sparks, he didn't wrestle past the midpoint of the season with the MN schedule.

Calendar dates have nothing to do with the hardship waiver. The link WKN provided only talks about competition dates. Wrestling operates off of a 17 competition date schedule. Over 6 competitions is considered too many and after the 9th competition (10+) is considered the midpoint in the season. 

[1032004]

On 5/8/2025 at 3:15 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

They define both terms in an addendum. They do it that way because the numbers change by sport.

For wrestling the midway point is defined as the 10th official date of competition for the team. In Alvarez's case, in both 2023 and 2024 it looks like his last match was the team's 11th official date. So he wrestled in the second half, making him ineligible for a hardship waiver.

For wrestling 30% is defined as 6 (the denominator is 17 and 30% of the denominator is rounded up to 6). In 2023 Alvarez competed in 9 official dates. In 2024 he competed in 5 official dates.

Reasonable time is relative to after all other eligibility is exhausted, not to when the injury occurred.

Do Tri’s count as one date? If not, it looks like his last match in 2022-2023 (Bloomsburg) was only the team’s 8th date, and he competed in 7 of them. Still doesn’t meet the stated requirements, but close…

[cowcards]

20 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Do Tri’s count as one date? If not, it looks like his last match in 2022-2023 (Bloomsburg) was only the team’s 8th date, and he competed in 7 of them. Still doesn’t meet the stated requirements, but close…

A full competition counts as a date. So Southern Scuffle is a single date. National Duals is a single date. It's hard for me to see 2023 as even in consideration since he wrestled in the 2nd half and more than the allotted dates. You've got a better argument for 2024. 

[1032004]

10 minutes ago, cowcards said:

A full competition counts as a date. So Southern Scuffle is a single date. National Duals is a single date. It's hard for me to see 2023 as even in consideration since he wrestled in the 2nd half and more than the allotted dates. You've got a better argument for 2024. 

They had two matches on 11/12 for the “Liberty HS Showcase,” and 2 matches on 12/4 for the “Garden State Grapple.”  So seems like he did not wrestle in the second half.

[cowcards]

58 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

They had two matches on 11/12 for the “Liberty HS Showcase,” and 2 matches on 12/4 for the “Garden State Grapple.”  So seems like he did not wrestle in the second half.

Who are you referring to? Alvarez never wrestled for Bloomsburg and I don't see those 2 matches on his Wrestlestat profile. 

[1032004]

6 hours ago, cowcards said:

Who are you referring to? Alvarez never wrestled for Bloomsburg and I don't see those 2 matches on his Wrestlestat profile. 

Alvarez in 2022-2023.  His last match that year was against Bloomsburg on 1/6, and yes he wrestled two matches each on 11/12 and 12/4.

[cowcards]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Alvarez in 2022-2023.  His last match that year was against Bloomsburg on 1/6, and yes he wrestled two matches each on 11/12 and 12/4.

Got you. You are correct. He didn’t wrestle the 2nd half of the year. I misread your post earlier and thought you said he did wrestle past the cutoff. 

My original statement was accurate. 2024 he wrestled the 2nd half. 2023 he wrestled too many dates. 

[1032004]

1 minute ago, cowcards said:

Got you. You are correct. He didn’t wrestle the 2nd half of the year. I misread your post earlier and thought you said he did wrestle past the cutoff. 

My original statement was accurate. 2024 he wrestled the 2nd half. 2023 he wrestled too many dates. 

Is there any chance maybe they wouldn’t count Midlands as an official date or something?

[cowcards]

27 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Is there any chance maybe they wouldn’t count Midlands as an official date or something?

Not if it was on their schedule as such. If he went unattached it might not count. But I have no idea if that was the case. 

[1032004]

38 minutes ago, cowcards said:

Not if it was on their schedule as such. If he went unattached it might not count. But I have no idea if that was the case. 

Just looked at the brackets on track, he does not show as unattached

[1032004]

Wasn’t Alvarez briefly at NC State as a true freshman?  Not sure if he was ever enrolled though.  If so (and if he’s eligible), this would be his 5th school.  Would that be a record, at least for an AA?

[cowcards]

1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Wasn’t Alvarez briefly at NC State as a true freshman?  Not sure if he was ever enrolled though.  If so (and if he’s eligible), this would be his 5th school.  Would that be a record, at least for an AA?

I don't think he ever enrolled. Just signed. 

[Cornell Kevin]

He is not eligible in both 2023 and 2024 for a medical 

 

In 2023 he wrestled in 8 duals and midlands which accounts for more than 30% of his teams schedule

 

In 2024, he wrestled as late as 1/27 which is past the midway point 

 

To whomever gave an example of someone wrestling at midlands, it’s because Midlands is at the beginning of January.  Alvarez wrestled on January 27th in 2024, and again he was fine for the cut off date in 2023 but he wrestled too many matches then 

[1032004]

2 minutes ago, Cornell Kevin said:

He is not eligible in both 2023 and 2024 for a medical 

 

In 2023 he wrestled in 8 duals and midlands which accounts for more than 30% of his teams schedule

 

In 2024, he wrestled as late as 1/27 which is past the midway point 

 

To whomever gave an example of someone wrestling at midlands, it’s because Midlands is at the beginning of January.  Alvarez wrestled on January 27th in 2024, and again he was fine for the cut off date in 2023 but he wrestled too many matches then 

Midlands is in December

[Cornell Kevin]

On 5/12/2025 at 8:24 PM, 1032004 said:

Andrew Sparks apparently got approved for a medical despite wrestling in January at the Southern Scuffle.  I know there is debate about if that was still first semester, but Alvarez’s last match in 2022-2023 was 1/6 so he could probably make the same argument, as I believe classes don’t start at most schools until mid-January

Southern scuffle is the beginning of January and that makes the deadline of half way point. In 2024 Alvarez wrestled on 1/27, but the year I believe you are questioning is 2023 in which he wrestled in 8 duals which is too many .  With or without the tournament that year, 8 duals is too many . 

[Cornell Kevin]

4 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

Midlands is in December

That’s right it’s like the last couple days of December. Then even more of a case of it making the Cut off lol

Edited May 14 by Cornell Kevin

[Cornell Kevin]

On 5/11/2025 at 5:51 PM, Wrestleknownothing said:

As promised:

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=104793&refDate=20250511

Why doesn’t it show wrestling in there or am i blind ?

[1032004]

7 hours ago, Cornell Kevin said:

Southern scuffle is the beginning of January and that makes the deadline of half way point. In 2024 Alvarez wrestled on 1/27, but the year I believe you are questioning is 2023 in which he wrestled in 8 duals which is too many .  With or without the tournament that year, 8 duals is too many . 

But isn’t it dates, not duals?  In 2023 he wrestled 2 duals in a day twice.  As discussed, still seems like he’s one over the limit, but if they’re able to make him retroactively unattached at Midlands or something seems like he would meet the criteria

[Wrestleknownothing]

2 hours ago, 1032004 said:

But isn’t it dates, not duals?  In 2023 he wrestled 2 duals in a day twice.  As discussed, still seems like he’s one over the limit, but if they’re able to make him retroactively unattached at Midlands or something seems like he would meet the criteria

A couple things:

The rule reads "contests or dates of competition", so two duals in aa single day probably counts as two.

The rule:

12.8.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference or the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for reasons of "hardship." Hardship is defined as an incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised: 1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 1/14/97, 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 11/1/01, 4/3/02, 8/8/02, 3/10/04, 5/11/05, 9/18/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 4/24/08, 7/31/14, 6/30/22 effective 8/1/22 for injuries and illnesses occurring on or after 8/1/22)

(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any two-year or four year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete's senior year in high school;

(b) The injury or illness occurs before the first contest or date of competition of the second half of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship in that sport and results in incapacity to compete for the remainder of that playing season; and

(c) The injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition or 30 percent of the maximum number of contests or dates of competition of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship as set forth in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport plus one contest or date of competition, whichever is greater.

12.8.4.1 Administration of Hardship Waiver. The hardship waiver shall be administered by the member conferences or, in the case of an independent member institution, by the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement. (Revised: 10/28/04, 4/20/09, 7/31/14)

12.8.4.1.1 Review of Denied Waiver. An institution may submit a denied hardship waiver to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement. The committee shall have the authority to review and determine whether to approve the waiver based on circumstances that may warrant relief from the application of the legislated waiver criteria. (Adopted: 4/20/09, Revised: 7/31/14)

12.8.4.2.3 First Half and 30 Percent of Season Denominator. The denominator used to determine the first half and 30 percent of a season is the maximum number of contests or dates of competition of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship as set forth in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport plus one contest or date of competition (see Figure 12-1). (Revised: 6/30/22 effective 8/1/22 for injuries and illnesses occurring on or after 8/1/22)

[Wrestleknownothing]

10 hours ago, Cornell Kevin said:

Why doesn’t it show wrestling in there or am i blind ?

It is at the bottom of the second page

[1032004]

46 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

A couple things:

The rule reads "contests or dates of competition", so two duals in aa single day probably counts as two.

The rule:

12.8.4 Hardship Waiver. A student-athlete may be granted an additional year of competition by the conference or the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement for reasons of "hardship." Hardship is defined as an incapacity resulting from an injury or illness that has occurred under all of the following conditions: (Revised: 1/10/92 effective 8/1/92, 1/14/97, 8/1/97, 4/26/01 effective 8/1/01, 11/1/01, 4/3/02, 8/8/02, 3/10/04, 5/11/05, 9/18/07, 11/1/07 effective 8/1/08, 4/24/08, 7/31/14, 6/30/22 effective 8/1/22 for injuries and illnesses occurring on or after 8/1/22)

(a) The incapacitating injury or illness occurs in one of the four seasons of intercollegiate competition at any two-year or four year collegiate institutions or occurs after the first day of classes in the student-athlete's senior year in high school;

(b) The injury or illness occurs before the first contest or date of competition of the second half of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship in that sport and results in incapacity to compete for the remainder of that playing season; and

(c) The injury or illness occurs when the student-athlete has not participated in more than three contests or dates of competition or 30 percent of the maximum number of contests or dates of competition of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship as set forth in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport plus one contest or date of competition, whichever is greater.

12.8.4.1 Administration of Hardship Waiver. The hardship waiver shall be administered by the member conferences or, in the case of an independent member institution, by the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement. (Revised: 10/28/04, 4/20/09, 7/31/14)

12.8.4.1.1 Review of Denied Waiver. An institution may submit a denied hardship waiver to the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement. The committee shall have the authority to review and determine whether to approve the waiver based on circumstances that may warrant relief from the application of the legislated waiver criteria. (Adopted: 4/20/09, Revised: 7/31/14)

12.8.4.2.3 First Half and 30 Percent of Season Denominator. The denominator used to determine the first half and 30 percent of a season is the maximum number of contests or dates of competition of the playing season that concludes with the NCAA championship as set forth in Bylaw 17 for the applicable sport plus one contest or date of competition (see Figure 12-1). (Revised: 6/30/22 effective 8/1/22 for injuries and illnesses occurring on or after 8/1/22)

Thank you.  I feel like “contests or dates” could be either one.  If the 5 “dates” for redshirts only applies to dates, I feel like that might be how this could be interpreted too.  Clearly Slumlord Bob and likely the staff must think there’s a chance.

Edited May 14 by 1032004