Iran wrestling news

[Lucho]

22 minutes ago, Irani said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DNLFBgGMiy5/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

For our friends who do not read Persian

Mansour Barzegar, former Iranian coach say, if Massoumi cannot make the national team, then let him leave so he can win silver or bronzer medals.  No need to politicize this situation

With all due respect to him that is an awful idea. I understand that Masoumi at the moment isn't good enough and probably feels frustrated and upset but he is only 21. Ali Arsalan was deemed "not good enough" and then became a world champion wrestling for Serbia. We still haven't produced a world champion in that weight class btw (hoping Sohrabi changes that). I fully understand that history will only remember guys who win world/olympic medals but at what cost? Is Sabah Shariati a respected wrestler in Iran winning medals for Azerbaijan? Is Saman Tahmasbi? They are going to be remembered as guys who won medals for other countries not their own. For once I agree with Dabir there should be no way he gets to leave. Masoumi is a generational talent that has the potential to win multiple world and olympic medals. If we lose him to another country that would be disastrous to our wrestling program. If he can't beat Zare now he won't do it wrestling for another country either. I get that those guys feel disrespected but if I was in that position I would never change my flag even if I had the chance of winning medals. 

[GrandOlm]

1 hour ago, Lucho said:

With all due respect to him that is an awful idea. I understand that Masoumi at the moment isn't good enough and probably feels frustrated and upset but he is only 21. Ali Arsalan was deemed "not good enough" and then became a world champion wrestling for Serbia. We still haven't produced a world champion in that weight class btw (hoping Sohrabi changes that). I fully understand that history will only remember guys who win world/olympic medals but at what cost? Is Sabah Shariati a respected wrestler in Iran winning medals for Azerbaijan? Is Saman Tahmasbi? They are going to be remembered as guys who won medals for other countries not their own. For once I agree with Dabir there should be no way he gets to leave. Masoumi is a generational talent that has the potential to win multiple world and olympic medals. If we lose him to another country that would be disastrous to our wrestling program. If he can't beat Zare now he won't do it wrestling for another country either. I get that those guys feel disrespected but if I was in that position I would never change my flag even if I had the chance of winning medals. 

It may or may not work out, but how is it an awful idea for sure?

Igor Rosotorotsky was the second best wrestler on the planet when he was a young man. He should have been at minimum a 2 or 3 time Olympic medalist with many World and European medals. But because of wrestling's unfair ways of selecting athletes to compete and the lack of transferring in his era, he was denied a full career (retired at 26). Now he's just a foot note, a trivia question about someone else's career. I wish transferring was a thing back in the 80s and 90s. I think Igor would have been part of many special moments. 

Other sports don't do this. They let people compete from more than one country if they're that good. Why do wrestlers have to sacrifice themselves for seemingly these arbitrarily designed processes (when there is an obvious out). You're only young once and time goes quickly. If you want to have a wrestling career and you can go somewhere where you can qualify, what's the downside exactly? Unless Masoumi is angling to be a politician in Iran after he retires? But you still need to have a good career even for that to happen. 

Well Ali Arslan is not a 2 meter tall super heavyweight, I don't know why he transfered. Masoumi can't chop his leg off and make 97 to help Iran.  So he's either not on the team or he beats Zare (or whoever else comes up). Either way, a really good wrestler is not contributing (besides other countries not having them). 

It's not just about beating Zare. There's more to wrestling than beating one opponent. What if Zare is just a bad match up for him? What if someone else can beats Zare for him in a tournament? Masoumi can never beat Zare again and win an Olympic, it's not that far fetched. Plus he can win silver and bronze medals at all the biggest tournaments even if Zare stops him every time. 

He has the option of trying to beat Zare or aging him out. But Zare is only 24. Are you going to wait 10 years for a guy you're only 3 years the junior of. And you won't be getting that time back. 

Personally, I'd just be proud that my nation produced a great athlete like that. I'd be mad at the dumb rules that forced his hand to transfer and cheer for them anyways. 

[Truzzcat]

sorry I am skimmy the thread so if I missed this I apologize. Is masoumi not going to be allowed to train in Iran anymore? I know his father is a pretty big figure. I thought this would impact Taz but he seems to still be able to train in Dagestan so I was wondering the ramifications of the transfer on Masoumi.

[Irani]

13 minutes ago, GrandOlm said:

 

Personally, I'd just be proud that my nation produced a great athlete like that. I'd be mad at the dumb rules that forced his hand to transfer and cheer for them anyways. 

^ This ^

[Lucho]

7 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Other sports don't do this. They let people compete from more than one country if they're that good. Why do wrestlers have to sacrifice themselves for seemingly these arbitrarily designed processes (when there is an obvious out). You're only young once and time goes quickly. If you want to have a wrestling career and you can go somewhere where you can qualify, what's the downside exactly? Unless Masoumi is angling to be a politician in Iran after he retires? But you still need to have a good career even for that to happen. 

I moreso have an issue with him wrestling for Azerbaijan of all places than anything else. Why compete and win medals for a country so hostile to your own? I personally feel that instead of transfers UWW can just let more than one athlete from a country per weight class to compete. This solves both the transfer issues and improves the quality of the competition. If you want to improve your wrestling medal tally do what India, China and Japan are doing. Invest in infrastructure and top quality coaching. Don't bring in foreign mercenaries who don't have a single understanding about your countries' culture and are only there for the money. If everyone on the podium is Russian/Iranian/American so be it, that happens already in olympic diving, athletics, swimming etc and no one cares because its good quality TV. If wrestling wants to grow they shouldn't care about whether they have enough quotas for South American wrestlers they should more be worried about how their best talent is watching the worlds from home. This flawed thinking is why wrestling nearly got removed from the olympics. Yes its the "world" championships but the world in wrestling means the countries around the Caspian Sea, Japan and US. What we see in the modern sport is essentially that anyways with these transfers.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

18 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

sorry I am skimmy the thread so if I missed this I apologize. Is masoumi not going to be allowed to train in Iran anymore? I know his father is a pretty big figure. I thought this would impact Taz but he seems to still be able to train in Dagestan so I was wondering the ramifications of the transfer on Masoumi.

I think Taz and other transfers are not allowed at national team camps, but were welcomed in the past?

[Irani]

12 hours ago, Lucho said:

I moreso have an issue with him wrestling for Azerbaijan of all places than anything else. Why compete and win medals for a country so hostile to your own? I personally feel that instead of transfers UWW can just let more than one athlete from a country per weight class to compete. This solves both the transfer issues and improves the quality of the competition. If you want to improve your wrestling medal tally do what India, China and Japan are doing. Invest in infrastructure and top quality coaching. Don't bring in foreign mercenaries who don't have a single understanding about your countries' culture and are only there for the money. If everyone on the podium is Russian/Iranian/American so be it, that happens already in olympic diving, athletics, swimming etc and no one cares because its good quality TV. If wrestling wants to grow they shouldn't care about whether they have enough quotas for South American wrestlers they should more be worried about how their best talent is watching the worlds from home. This flawed thinking is why wrestling nearly got removed from the olympics. Yes its the "world" championships but the world in wrestling means the countries around the Caspian Sea, Japan and US. What we see in the modern sport is essentially that anyways with these transfers.

You raise a good point about Azerbajan, I am puzzled why he is not going to Bahrain.

The unfairness to the apporach in wrestling has been discussed multiple times.  It sucks, but I don't see it changing.

[GrandOlm]

16 hours ago, Lucho said:

I moreso have an issue with him wrestling for Azerbaijan of all places than anything else. Why compete and win medals for a country so hostile to your own? I personally feel that instead of transfers UWW can just let more than one athlete from a country per weight class to compete. This solves both the transfer issues and improves the quality of the competition. If you want to improve your wrestling medal tally do what India, China and Japan are doing. Invest in infrastructure and top quality coaching. Don't bring in foreign mercenaries who don't have a single understanding about your countries' culture and are only there for the money. If everyone on the podium is Russian/Iranian/American so be it, that happens already in olympic diving, athletics, swimming etc and no one cares because its good quality TV. If wrestling wants to grow they shouldn't care about whether they have enough quotas for South American wrestlers they should more be worried about how their best talent is watching the worlds from home. This flawed thinking is why wrestling nearly got removed from the olympics. Yes its the "world" championships but the world in wrestling means the countries around the Caspian Sea, Japan and US. What we see in the modern sport is essentially that anyways with these transfers.

I agree with you overall. 

But Masoumi has to make a decision for the here and now. 

I think he chose AZE since they're the top mercenary team. So the money and just the set up that they have ready for wrestlers is the best. I didn't buy that he was going to Armenia. AZE are actually smart how they focus on Greco for the natives (the easier style to get good at as a nation) and leave the other style for foreigners. It's like a win win for them. 

Not to derail the thread, it is interesting how a Shia nation is on bad terms with one of the few majority Shia (albeit secular) countries. 

 

[nhs67]

1 hour ago, GrandOlm said:

I agree with you overall. 

But Masoumi has to make a decision for the here and now. 

I think he chose AZE since they're the top mercenary team. So the money and just the set up that they have ready for wrestlers is the best. I didn't buy that he was going to Armenia. AZE are actually smart how they focus on Greco for the natives (the easier style to get good at as a nation) and leave the other style for foreigners. It's like a win win for them. 

Not to derail the thread, it is interesting how a Shia nation is on bad terms with one of the few majority Shia (albeit secular) countries. 

 

Bahrain had more Olympic champs last year.  That 97/125 combo would have been lethal for the next 10+ years.

[Truzzcat]

5 hours ago, Irani said:

You raise a good point about Azerbajan, I am puzzled why he is not going to Bahrain.

The unfairness to the apporach in wrestling has been discussed multiple times.  It sucks, but I don't see it changing.

I wonder if there is concern for him that Taz ends up at heavy.

[Lucho]

7 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Not to derail the thread, it is interesting how a Shia nation is on bad terms with one of the few majority Shia (albeit secular) countries. 

Azerbaijan historically was a part of Iran and a large portion of Iranians self identify as Azeri. Russia took it alongside a couple other places in the caucaus during the Russian-Iranian ward. We still have two provinces called East and West Azerbaijan. The tension comes from the fact Azerbaijan wants to take the rest of the provinces as part of their own and push Pan-Turk identity. That's where my problem lies with them. They are turkish nationalists who have persian heritage. It's kinda weird.

[Lucho]

5 hours ago, Truzzcat said:

I wonder if there is concern for him that Taz ends up at heavy.

Yeah I reckon Tazhudinov fills out to 125 by 2032 he is too big to not eventually go to heavy weight. So I think that's why Bahrain didn't go for him.

[wrestlingfan22]

5 hours ago, Lucho said:

Yeah I reckon Tazhudinov fills out to 125 by 2032 he is too big to not eventually go to heavy weight. So I think that's why Bahrain didn't go for him.

I agree as well. Not worth the risk for Bahrain that they end up with two heavyweights. Especially because Taz is so young and already a massive 97. 

[Irani]

At 

6 hours ago, Lucho said:

Azerbaijan historically was a part of Iran and a large portion of Iranians self identify as Azeri. Russia took it alongside a couple other places in the caucaus during the Russian-Iranian ward. We still have two provinces called East and West Azerbaijan. The tension comes from the fact Azerbaijan wants to take the rest of the provinces as part of their own and push Pan-Turk identity. That's where my problem lies with them. They are turkish nationalists who have persian heritage. It's kinda weird.

Azerbaijan, Dagestan, Armenia, and Georgia were part of Iran (then Persia) before the incompetent Persian king surrendered them to Russia.  Think of the wrestling implications if that had not happened.