Zain's bow and arrow

[KennyEBHS]

Zain delivered some pain in Turkey with his bow and arrow. I bet none of the international guys have seen or FELT Zain's bow and arrow. He's showing how folkstyle can influence freestyle.

[cangemi]

  On 5/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, KennyEBHS said:

Zain delivered some pain in Turkey with his bow and arrow. I bet none of the international guys have seen or FELT Zain's bow and arrow. He's showing how folkstyle can influence freestyle.

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Yep, I was think same. 

[Hammerlock3]

  On 5/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, KennyEBHS said:

Zain delivered some pain in Turkey with his bow and arrow. I bet none of the international guys have seen or FELT Zain's bow and arrow. He's showing how folkstyle can influence freestyle.

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fyi he didn't hit a single bow and arrow in the whole tournment.

Edited May 12, 2024 by Hammerlock3

[JimmyCinnabon]

  On 5/12/2024 at 10:55 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

fyi he didn't hit a single bow and arrow in the whole tournment.

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Looks pretty painful. 

[Hammerlock3]

obviously but thats a different move...and he didn't score in that exchange.

[Threadkilla]

In the last match, Zain almost had a turk, he had the leg a couple times but the ref stopped him,  Zain cranked the head and took him over anyway.  

[Hammerlock3]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:37 AM, Threadkilla said:

In the last match, Zain almost had a turk, he had the leg a couple times but the ref stopped him,  Zain cranked the head and took him over anyway.  

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Yeah that was great.

[lisa morales]

Since international refs blow their whistles every 10 seconds for the tiniest things I'm shocked they don't stop him from cranking the head.  

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/12/2024 at 10:52 PM, KennyEBHS said:

Zain delivered some pain in Turkey with his bow and arrow. I bet none of the international guys have seen or FELT Zain's bow and arrow. He's showing how folkstyle can influence freestyle.

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Except that a bent leg TURK came from freestyle.

[KennyEBHS]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:23 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Except that a bent leg TURK came from freestyle.

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I have never seen that move in any freestyle match I've watched.

[Crotalus]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:23 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Except that a bent leg TURK came from freestyle.

Yeah, I learned it as a freestyle move. You can actually roll it through for multiple exposures the way you would a gut or lace. You don't see it that much internationally, though.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:47 PM, Crotalus said:

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:23 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Except that a bent leg TURK came from freestyle.

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Yeah, I learned it as a freestyle move. You can actually roll it through for multiple exposures the way you would a gut or lace. You don't see it that much internationally, though.

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Thank you.  It appears more people need to watch more freestyle.

Dave Schultz popularized the technique in the US.

[Truzzcat]

he ran a bar a lot at worlds last year which was super effective.

[Crotalus]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:53 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Thank you.  It appears more people need to watch more freestyle.
Dave Schultz popularized the technique in the US.

To be fair, the first time it was used against me was in folkstyle (although by a Cadet freestyle national champ). I was not aware that my foot could get that close to my head.....

[Hammerlock3]

  On 5/13/2024 at 12:31 PM, KennyEBHS said:

I have never seen that move in any freestyle match I've watched.

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dave schultz did it every other match for about 15 years.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/13/2024 at 2:57 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

dave schultz did it every other match for about 15 years.

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Yep.  Someone who hasn't seen it in freestyle hasn't watched a lot of Dave.

Wasn't there a match where he had someone screaming from it?  Makybe Koll?  I couldn't find it on YouTube.  

The late great Morris Johnson had a great story on TheMat.com about Dave putting the hold on him and seeing his own foot so close to his head.  Claimed that in the moment he thought it was Schultz foot and said to himself "wow... Dave has the same shoes as me."

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/12/2024 at 11:10 PM, JimmyCinnabon said:

Looks pretty painful. 

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I love this as a "bow and arrow." I mean he has an ankle and is applying forward pressure.  That's about where the similarities end.

Dave Schultz called it a "bent leg turk" btw (what is commonly called a bow and arrow)

[Hammerlock3]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:02 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Yep.  Someone who hasn't seen it in freestyle hasn't watched a lot of Dave.

Wasn't there a match where he had someone screaming from it?  Makybe Koll?  I couldn't find it on YouTube.  

The late great Morris Johnson had a great story on TheMat.com about Dave putting the hold on him and seeing his own foot so close to his head.  Claimed that in the moment he thought it was Schultz foot and said to himself "wow... Dave has the same shoes as me."

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it could be hard to tell, because sometime schultz would "yell to sell" himself...this is a lace obviously (not that it matters in this topic), but screams at the 630 mark and its hard to tell who is yelling.

 

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:11 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

it could be hard to tell, because sometime schultz would "yell to sell" himself...this is a lace obviously (not that it matters in this topic), but screams at the 630 mark and its hard to tell who is yelling.

 

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Maybe.  I remember one with a ton of screaming throughout.

[Hammerlock3]

go to 4:30 mark watch the finish for the fall, makes anything zain's done look romantic by comparison.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:49 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

go to 4:30 mark watch the finish for the fall, makes anything zain's done look romantic by comparison.

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Nice to see that folkstyle move making in an impression in Freestyle! Thank goodness for the PSU influence! I wonder who showed Dave how to do that?  Do you think it was Zain? Or maybe Max Dean?

[Hammerlock3]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:53 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Nice to see that folkstyle move making in an impression in Freestyle! Thank goodness for the PSU influence! I wonder who showed Dave how to do that?  Do you think it was Zain? Or maybe Max Dean?

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thats one of my favorite zain quotes, he was asked if the move should be named after him, probably by the sequencing guy, and he respond "um...no, that moves been around for awhile." He's obviously not about shallow narratives.

[Threadkilla]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:04 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

I love this as a "bow and arrow." I mean he has an ankle and is applying forward pressure.  That's about where the similarities end.

Dave Schultz called it a "bent leg turk" btw (what is commonly called a bow and arrow)

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Zain was attempting the Bent Leg Turk a couple times and the ref waived him off.  So he hooked the guy's leg with his leg and cranked his skull.  

 

Edited May 13, 2024 by Threadkilla

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:56 PM, Hammerlock3 said:

thats one of my favorite zain quotes, he was asked if the move should be named after him, probably by the sequencing guy, and he respond "um...no, that moves been around for awhile." He's obviously not about shallow narratives.

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Yes, I would challenge anyone who thinks that is a folkstyle move to find a video of someone hitting it in a folkstyle match that pre-dates Dave Schultz.  Good luck!

Edited May 13, 2024 by Interviewed_at_Weehawken

[Threadkilla]

  On 5/13/2024 at 3:53 PM, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Nice to see that folkstyle move making in an impression in Freestyle! Thank goodness for the PSU influence! I wonder who showed Dave how to do that?  Do you think it was Zain? Or maybe Max Dean?

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I missed the part where somebody said that Penn State invented the Turk.  Schultz has been mentioned, but John Smith did the bent leg Turk and standing Turk and he was Schultz contemporary.  I don't believe either of them invented the move.   I've seen it attempted quite often in freestyle, but oftentimes it's flagged as potentially dangerous by the ref.