Election and Jan 6 charges

[WrestlingRasta]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

Hypothetically what would have been the process if they had found sufficient fraud in the 2020 election to have caused a different outcome?

It would have started in the same way MAGA tried to start it…through the courts.

Then they got shot down 62 times, plus by a whole bunch of secretaries of state….so they went to other ‘processes’

(allegedly)

[Offthemat]

2 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Hypothetically what would have been the process if they had found sufficient fraud in the 2020 election to have caused a different outcome?

I’ll answer this if no one else does, but I so want to hear his answer first. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Just now, WrestlingRasta said:

It would have started in the same way MAGA tried to start it…through the courts.

Then they got shot down 62 times, plus by a whole bunch of secretaries of state….so they went to other ‘processes’

(allegedly)

Honestly don’t know exactly, other than a process that goes through courts then back to the states election officials. Kinda like the paper chad recount in Florida. 

[Paul158]

11 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

You tell me; I'm not an attorney, and nor do I try to play one in the classroom or on the internet.

I do know this though:  not a court in the land substantiated any of this nonsense that STILL hasn't died with the 30 percenters.

Fair enough. Maybe someone on here has some understanding of the process. Thanks.

[Offthemat]

9 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

You tell me; I'm not an attorney, and nor do I try to play one in the classroom or on the internet.

I do know this though:  not a court in the land substantiated any of this nonsense that STILL hasn't died with the 30 percenters.

The Supreme Court very nearly stepped in, you’ll remember that Alito told Pennsylvania to keep the challenged votes separated, but Roberts won out, wanting to stay out of the politics.  Separation of powers.  
 

The way it would go, and it has happened several times before, is the votes from the states that cannot be certified, get thrown out, and if no one gets enough electoral votes to win, it gets sent to Congress to make the decision.  Each state gets one vote. 

[Paul158]

14 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

It would have started in the same way MAGA tried to start it…through the courts.

Then they got shot down 62 times, plus by a whole bunch of secretaries of state….so they went to other ‘processes’

(allegedly)

Ok . So you go to courts and they find sufficient  evidence of fraud in the election to alter the outcome. Does it go to the supreme court? Remember this is hypothetical. I just want to know what the process is. I don't want to start a world war 3.

[Paul158]

2 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The Supreme Court very nearly stepped in, you’ll remember that Alito told Pennsylvania to keep the challenged votes separated, but Roberts won out, wanting to stay out of the politics.  Separation of powers.  
 

The way it would go, and it has happened several times before, is the votes from the states that cannot be certified, get thrown out, and if no one gets enough electoral votes to win, it gets sent to Congress to make the decision.  Each state gets one vote. 

Ok . Thanks for your help. I had not heard anyone actually talk about what the full process would be. Thanks again.

[WrestlingRasta]

3 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Ok . So you go to courts and they find sufficient  evidence of fraud in the election to alter the outcome. Does it go to the supreme court? Remember this is hypothetical. I just want to know what the process is. I don't want to start a world war 3.

Yeah I was being a smartass, I clarified below if you didn't see.

[Ban Basketball]

8 minutes ago, Offthemat said:

The Supreme Court very nearly stepped in, you’ll remember that Alito told Pennsylvania to keep the challenged votes separated, but Roberts won out, wanting to stay out of the politics.  Separation of powers.  
 

The way it would go, and it has happened several times before, is the votes from the states that cannot be certified, get thrown out, and if no one gets enough electoral votes to win, it gets sent to Congress to make the decision.  Each state gets one vote. 

Too bad that "philosophy" didn't guide them in 2000. 

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

Yeah I was being a smartass, I clarified below if you didn't see.

No problem. 

[Paul158]

1 minute ago, Ban Basketball said:

Too bad that "philosophy" didn't guide them in 2000. 

Yes that was a big mess. No one knew what a hanging chad was prior to that election. 

[Offthemat]

2 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

Too bad that "philosophy" didn't guide them in 2000. 

Thus the reasoning for Roberts wanting to stay out of it this time.  Memory leans toward it being the same outcome, and a matter of discussion at the time. 

[Paul158]

My wish would be they would have the results done by the next morning .No Exceptions. So if you are mailing  in your vote you better have it there 2 days before the actual election day or it doesn't count. Taking weeks for results is totally unacceptable.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Paul158
missed a word

[Ban Basketball]

2 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Yes that was a big mess. No one knew what a hanging chad was prior to that election. 

That wasn't even remotely the issue that I was referring to.  Vinnie Bugliosi stated it so eloquently in this most important book.

[Offthemat]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

My wish would be they would have the results done by the next morning .No Exceptions. So if you are mailing  in your vote you  better have there 2 days before the actual election day or it doesn't count. Taking weeks for results is totally unacceptable.

I agree, and I believe it’s France that accomplishes this with hand counting. 

[WrestlingRasta]

Just now, Paul158 said:

My wish would be they would have the results done by the next morning .No Exceptions. So if you are mailing  in your vote you  better have there 2 days before the actual election day or it doesn't count. Taking weeks for results is totally unacceptable.

So I don't understand that.   A growing nation more and more voters (over 150 million for president in '20 and there were many like me who voted on that ballot but not for president).   Next morning or not at all is a pretty tough ask for something so important and needing to be as precise as possible.  

I get wanting to do it timely, I'm completely with you.  But do we want it as fast as possible, or as accurate as possible, and ensuring everyone has a vote counted (as long as they voted correctly). 

[Paul158]

1 minute ago, Ban Basketball said:

That wasn't even remotely the issue that I was referring to.  Vinnie Bugliosi stated it so eloquently in this most important book.

My point is that elections are very important. The integrity of the process is very important. Having antique voting machines is totally irresponsible. It causes chaos . Which leads to no confidence in election process.

[Ban Basketball]

1 minute ago, Paul158 said:

My point is that elections are very important. The integrity of the process is very important. Having antique voting machines is totally irresponsible. It causes chaos . Which leads to no confidence in election process.

That's a very fair point.  Given your point, it makes it all the more bizarre to me that many are now calling for a return to paper ballots.

[Paul158]

5 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

So I don't understand that.   A growing nation more and more voters (over 150 million for president in '20 and there were many like me who voted on that ballot but not for president).   Next morning or not at all is a pretty tough ask for something so important and needing to be as precise as possible.  

I get wanting to do it timely, I'm completely with you.  But do we want it as fast as possible, or as accurate as possible, and ensuring everyone has a vote counted (as long as they voted correctly). 

Aren't some of the states finished up the night of the election? Of course we want it  accurate. But this isn't the 1980's .

[Paul158]

2 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

That's a very fair point.  Given your point, it makes it all the more bizarre to me that many are now calling for a return to paper ballots.

That is also bizarre to me. Just have them accurate and done in a timely fashion.

[WrestlingRasta]

4 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

Aren't some of the states finished up the night of the election? Of course we want it  accurate. But this isn't the 1980's .

By finished up the night of election, I think you mean called.  It's more common for states to be called before all ballots are counted, than not.  That's why there's a part of the process in December to certify each state, and then the ceremonial step in January to verify each state.

[Offthemat]

10 minutes ago, Ban Basketball said:

That's a very fair point.  Given your point, it makes it all the more bizarre to me that many are now calling for a return to paper ballots.

Electronic voting has shown to be susceptible to manipulation before, during, and after the election.  Paper ballots, not so much, but extended counting does allow for the “found another batch” opportunity as in the Al Franken situation. 

[Offthemat]

What amazes me is how so many gullibly accept that biden, without campaigning, accrued millions and millions more votes than Obama had.  

[Paul158]

3 minutes ago, WrestlingRasta said:

By finished up the night of election, I think you mean called.  It's more common for states to be called before all ballots are counted, than not.  That's why there's a part of the process in December to certify each state, and then the ceremonial step in January to verify each state.

I believe we are down to about 6 or 7 states that actually decide a Presidential election. It would be great for them to get the votes counted in a timely fashion. I would give them one day. Implement voting procedures to achieve that. They can certify them also in a timely fashion also. Some states are doing a really good job.

[WrestlingRasta]

2 minutes ago, Paul158 said:

I believe we are down to about 6 or 7 states that actually decide a Presidential election. It would be great for them to get the votes counted in a timely fashion. I would give them one day. Implement voting procedures to achieve that. They can certify them also in a timely fashion also. Some states are doing a really good job.

So how do you propose instituting that?