New 23-24 NFHS Rules Released

[Old guy]

41 minutes ago, BobDole said:

The 30 minute rule is much needed as 45 minutes is way too much. However, I don't see it affecting tournaments all that much. A long tournament is going to be a long one with the wait period shortened. If it's originally a 10 hour day, making it a 9 hour day is still long. The best way for tournament directors to take advantage of the shortened wait time is to add mats. For instance a 16 man full bracket placing 8 is 420 matches. Over three mats that is 140 matches per mat, on four mats its 105, and on 5 mats it's 84 matches. At about 5.5 minutes per match you go from 12.8 hours to 9.6 hours, to 7.7 hours without any breaks.

 

Not all high school gyms can hold more than 3 or have 4 on hand. I agree more is better (5-6 is fantastic if you have them) but you have to live with the space / materials available. 

[gimpeltf]

3 hours ago, Old guy said:

High School generally doesn't have opens and non-sanctioned tournaments can do what ever they want as you well know. In a 16-man bracket on 3 mats which is I think at what this is targeted; I do not believe it would some into play until the third round assuming round 2 is champ and consi together. After that it will be a huge benefit. 

If there are a ton of early round pins then all bets are off and this rule becomes a parent's best friend. Apparently Bob Dole's too.

Tournaments that are say 12 man or less or some kind of pool it could have a big effect. A rule I really like. 

 

As a side note another rule I wish all states would adopt is a season match limit as opposed to an event / weigh-in limit. Let the coaches figure out what is best for their team and schedule accordingly.  

But they do have non-even weight distribution- especially in the smaller events. Granted the Beast or Iron Man probably won't be affected because of size. But the smaller Christmas type tournies might invite 8 schools and have enough byes to cause problems. 

And the point is that with a 30 minute rest this becomes less of a problem.

Edited May 8, 2023 by gimpeltf

[Old guy]

2 hours ago, gimpeltf said:

But they do have non-even weight distribution- especially in the smaller events. Granted the Beast or Iron Man probably won't be affected because of size. But the smaller Christmas type tournies might invite 8 schools and have enough byes to cause problems. 

And the point is that with a 30 minute rest this becomes less of a problem.

 

Agreed when you are below 16-man or smaller pools the reduced time will greatly help. 

When I was assessing this as a mathematician, I used a baseline of 16 teams with full brackets and an average match time of 4 minutes. I figured that was reasonable for a worst case. Any byes and fast pins will reduce that average time but the first two rounds will still have 8 matches per weight and take will over an hour. After that it accelerates. 

[gimpeltf]

16 minutes ago, Old guy said:

 

Agreed when you are below 16-man or smaller pools the reduced time will greatly help. 

When I was assessing this as a mathematician, I used a baseline of 16 teams with full brackets and an average match time of 4 minutes. I figured that was reasonable for a worst case. Any byes and fast pins will reduce that average time but the first two rounds will still have 8 matches per weight and take will over an hour. After that it accelerates. 

Yup- perfect weight classes are ... perfect! 

[JVStateChamp]

One rule I wish every state would adopt is to agree on a set of weight classes. This is the selfish viewer aspect in me, but I always get mixed up when watching Ironman, Powerade, and Beast when they all have different weight classes, as an athlete I can't imagine the different weights are all that fun either.

[BobDole]

21 minutes ago, JVStateChamp said:

One rule I wish every state would adopt is to agree on a set of weight classes. This is the selfish viewer aspect in me, but I always get mixed up when watching Ironman, Powerade, and Beast when they all have different weight classes, as an athlete I can't imagine the different weights are all that fun either.

Most states will officially adopt the NFHS 14 weight class set this year.

[JVStateChamp]

1 minute ago, BobDole said:

Most states will officially adopt the NFHS 14 weight class set this year.

I hold my breathe on Pennsylvania, being a PA native and following predominantly Pennsylvania wrestlers it frustrates me that we had a different weight class set than most everyone last year. Adding 1 pound to every weight up until 145, didn't see the logic in that but the PIAA probably knows more than I do

[BobDole]

1 minute ago, JVStateChamp said:

I hold my breathe on Pennsylvania, being a PA native and following predominantly Pennsylvania wrestlers it frustrates me that we had a different weight class set than most everyone last year. Adding 1 pound to every weight up until 145, didn't see the logic in that but the PIAA probably knows more than I do

PA is doing their own thing unfortunately. They aren't even adopting one of the NFHS weight set options.

[gimpeltf]

Not sure what some of you are thinking here PIAA-wise. That 1 pound add to the first several weights was done so that it DID comply with the NFHS 13 weight set for boys.

[BobDole]

28 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Not sure what some of you are thinking here PIAA-wise. That 1 pound add to the first several weights was done so that it DID comply with the NFHS 13 weight set for boys.

I didn't realize they changed to those weight classes this year. I would hate to be a PIAA coach as they have had about 16 different sets of weights the past 3 years.

 

Here are the NFHS standard weights for 12, 13, or 14 weight classes just so everyone is a little less confused.

(12) 108 lbs., 116 lbs., 124 lbs., 131 lbs., 138 lbs., 145 lbs., 152 lbs., 160 lbs., 170 lbs., 190 lbs., 215 lbs., 285 lbs.

(13) 107 lbs., 114 lbs., 121 lbs., 127 lbs., 133 lbs., 139 lbs., 145 lbs., 152 lbs., 160 lbs., 172 lbs., 189 lbs., 215 lbs., 285 lbs.

(14) 106 lbs., 113 lbs., 120 lbs., 126 lbs., 132 lbs. 138 lbs., 144 lbs., 150 lbs., 157 lbs., 165 lbs., 175 lbs., 190 lbs., 215 lbs., 285 lbs.

[gimpeltf]

34 minutes ago, BobDole said:

I didn't realize they changed to those weight classes this year. I would hate to be a PIAA coach as they have had about 16 different sets of weights the past 3 years.

I'm not positive here but I believe the PIAA started thinking about changing the weights prior to the NFHS settling on their new sets. So they just came up with a reasonable set and then once the NFHS settled they went with it.

[JVStateChamp]

4 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

I'm not positive here but I believe the PIAA started thinking about changing the weights prior to the NFHS settling on their new sets. So they just came up with a reasonable set and then once the NFHS settled they went with it.

PIAA narrowed down to 13 weights two years ago originally the weights being 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 172, 189, 215, HWT.

This was the first year that PIAA wrestled under the 13-weight set established by NFHS.

[Formally140]

On 5/8/2023 at 1:40 PM, Old guy said:

High School generally doesn't have opens and non-sanctioned tournaments can do what ever they want as you well know. In a 16-man bracket on 3 mats which is I think at what this is targeted; I do not believe it would some into play until the third round assuming round 2 is champ and consi together. After that it will be a huge benefit. 

If there are a ton of early round pins then all bets are off and this rule becomes a parent's best friend. Apparently Bob Dole's too.

Tournaments that are say 12 man or less or some kind of pool it could have a big effect. A rule I really like. 

 

As a side note another rule I wish all states would adopt is a season match limit as opposed to an event / weigh-in limit. Let the coaches figure out what is best for their team and schedule accordingly.  

Illinois went to to 50 total matches (though they might’ve changed it to 45. It soooo nice. We can schedule more tournaments. Less late as hell weekday matches and more weight room. Much less injuries this last season 

[davenowa]

admittedly, it is all over the place in terms of state season limits regarding total number of matches, or limits on multis and total dates.  without parameters, more and more emphasis is placed on individually bracketed tournaments, and less on dual meets.  quads used to be considered long days, but now they are like a 1/2 day compared to a 13 hour tourney.  would like to see some suggested guidance from NFHS and their medical pros, such as total number of matches, or at least limits on a reasonable number of individually bracketed events.  while some states limit those to 5 or 6, others have no boundaries. additionally, some states have no restrictions on more than 2 competitions per week.  I would think a reasonable plan that does not scare away families who don't want to spend every single Saturday in a gym for 13 hours might be based on a typical regular season length of 10 weeks, such that you could have 10 mid-week duals (or even a tri-meet), and 9 weekend events, of which no more than 7-8 could be individually bracketed events with greater than 8 teams, allowing for an extra dual on a Friday or Sat, or perhaps even one Saturday off during the season (much like some states require in football or lax).  With the new 6 per day limit, it seems excessive to see kids heading into the post-season with 55 regular season matches.  however, much like 2 day weigh-ins and weight descent plans, these limitations will need to be implemented by admins and ADs, as there will always be resistance from many coaches to place any limits on any component, regardless of whether it is in the best interest of the individual athletes or the health of the sport overall.