Pac-12 Championships Thread - Brackets

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, ionel said:

Zekke was going to have a wrestle off but Bonno wouldn't sign off. 

[HazMat67]

I heard there was a best of 3.

[SunDevil]

3 hours ago, RegularStalling said:

Any idea if there was a wrestle off between Courtney/Figs? Or was this just a Zeke decision?

There were. It was extremely tight. From what I heard from a very good source is Figs won more than he lost. 

[SunDevil]

4 hours ago, RegularStalling said:

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by SunDevil

[Show_Me]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:18 PM, Idaho said:

Valencia did not earn an allocation - Wrestlers who earned allocations are seeded first then those who did not. 

Is this true ?  I suppose it is as you seem to be in the know.  If so, do any other Conferences do this ? 

This would seem to contradict the purpose of Seeding ... which is to evaluate/seed a wrestlers regular season resume.  Yes, awarding an AQ does evaluate to some extent but doesn't specifically focus on Conference results.  Interesting.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Show_Me

[Idaho]

51 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Is this true ?  I suppose it is as you seem to be in the know.  If so, do any other Conferences do this ? 

This would seem to contradict the purpose of Seeding ... which is to evaluate/seed a wrestlers regular season resume.  Yes, awarding an AQ does evaluate to some extent but doesn't specifically focus on Conference results.  Interesting.

No I just made it up and threw it out there....   haha.... I have it on very good authority that this is the case with the Pac-12 seedings. I was wondering the same thing.  I don't know if other conferences do this or not. I guess we will find out when official brackets are dropped in other conferences. Seems like it "should" be uniform, but I don't know.  This is the reason that  Olmos is the #1 and Eichens is the #2 - but Valencia is #3 having beat them both. Valencia did not qualify a spot but Olmos and Eichen's did. I am okay with this, but I think there is a worse scenario that is connected to it.... there are many top 5 wrestlers that did not earn an AQ for their weight in their conference because they did not wrestle enough matches. They are going to go in and make the finals and "steal" a spot from some border line guys all because they decided to not wrestle a full schedule. The NCAA will need to address this. There are guys who had great seasons, who earned a spot and will get bumped because they finished 6th instead of 5th because the #4 guy in the country took his spot because he dint' have enough matches. Whether you like Mineo or not, he is spot on with this take: 

 

'Another unintentional impact that low match counts and mff’s have on things is ncaa conference allocations- when a guy like Yianni doesn’t have 15 matches and doesn’t qualify for RPI the conference doesn’t get his allocation there, and he will win the tourny and take that allocation anyway. We saw this last year where a few big names didn’t earn allocations because of match counts, etc but took the spots, pushing others out.

Ncaa may want to look at this format because it doesn’t hurt the top guys but it does hurt the guy who was seeded 3rd, fringe qualifiers, etc…"

[Show_Me]

Thanks for your response.  I know you didn't just "throw it out there".

It is NOT a uniform practice/criteria.  I can not find another Conference that does this when reviewing AQ's & Seeds.

I agree with your thoughts on "unintended consequences".  I don't expect the NCAA to address this.

Minneo's example doesn't apply as Yianni was awarded an AQ.

[Show_Me]

Examples of the "Unintended Consequences" wouid be :

125:  #9 (IM) DeAugustion (Northwestern)

141:  #7 Tal-Shahar (Northwestern)

157::  #13 Carr (Illinois) & #14 Siebrecht (Iowa)

174:  #12 Brands (Iowa)

I am probably missing several others.  All of these wrestlers are good bets to "steal" an NCAA bid at the expense of an AQ wrestler.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Show_Me

[ionel]

6 minutes ago, Show_Me said:

Examples of the "Unintended Consequences" wouid be :

125:  #9 (IM) DeAugustion (Northwestern)

141:  #7 Tal-Shahar (Northwestern)

157::  #13 Carr (Illinois) & #14 Siebrecht (Iowa)

174:  #12 Brands (Iowa)

I am probably missing several others.  All of these wrestlers are good bets to "steal" an NCAA bid at the expense of an AQ wrestler.

not that anything's wrong with that   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Idaho]

3 minutes ago, ionel said:

not that anything's wrong with that   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not if you’re a big10 fan ….

[ionel]

Just now, Idaho said:

Not if you’re a big10 fan ….

What if you are a M Carr fan?

[Idaho]

20 minutes ago, ionel said:

What if you are a M Carr fan?

Then it's been a rough couple years. 

[ionel]

11 minutes ago, Idaho said:

Then it's been a rough couple years. 

At least his Iowa St bro is doing well.

[Idaho]

The article on Flow about ASU said that Norfleet could still get medial clearance to wrestle at the PAC-12. This article came out after brackets. How long can a team have to replace a wrestler in the bracket?

From the article:

Additionally, four-time Pac-12 champion (one title at 184, three at 197) Kordell Norfleet hasn’t wrestled since early December but possibly could get late medical clearance and take a shot at a fifth conference crown. Lineup regular Josh Nummer has been seeded but Norfleet may get cleared, according to Jones.

[Jay]

Does anybody know the seeding criteria?

133lb Rotondo beat the #2 and #3 seeds but seeded #4?

[Idaho]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Does anybody know the seeding criteria?

133lb Rotondo beat the #2 and #3 seeds but seeded #4?

Guys who qualified a spot are seeded before guys who did not. 

[bracketbuster]

Norfleet now listed in the bracket at 197 lbs. as the #5 seed.

[NearFall]

15 hours ago, bracketbuster said:

Norfleet now listed in the bracket at 197 lbs. as the #5 seed.

That is what is listed on the brackets on TrackWrestling but I have not seen it anywhere else.

However Norfleet is actually listed on the TW bracket as the # 4 seed - not # 5.  And his first round opponent is the # 5 seed Mateo Morales of CSB.  Assuming Norfleet wins that match he would then wrestle the # 1 seed Bernie Truax of Cal Poly.

https://www.trackwrestling.com/predefinedtournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&TIM=1677935276011&pageName=%2Fpredefinedtournaments%2FBracketViewer.jsp&twSessionId=vhedyqqbdg

The PAC 12 Wrestling Championship Central webpage still is listing ASU's Josh Nummer as the # 5 Seed vs. the # 4 Seed Mateo Morales of CSB.

https://pac-12.com/2023-pac-12-wrestling-championships

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by NearFall
addition

[Idaho]

I'm going with Track since that's where the tournament is recorded and is updated more recently than Pac12. 

Doesn't matter if he's 4 or 5 - they wrestle first round regardless. 

Not sure how a guy can be cleared medically to practice and be ready for a conference tournament but still have to wait on medical clearance for competition. Unless all he could do was condition.... if that be the case we are going to see a rusty Norfleet...but we probably will anyway.  

 

[NearFall]

I would think that if Norfleet is going to be their guy at 197 lbs for the tournament that there would have been something about that on the ASU wrestling website or at the very least on the ASU wrestling twitter page.  But there is nothing about him competing on either of those two websites.

[Idaho]

7 minutes ago, NearFall said:

I would think that if Norfleet is going to be their guy at 197 lbs for the tournament that there would have been something about that on the ASU wrestling website or at the very least on the ASU wrestling twitter page.  But there is nothing about him competing on either of those two websites.

How about the interview from Zeke Jones on Flowrestling that I quoted up above? 

[NearFall]

That was all ifs and maybes and coulds.  I was looking for something more definitive than that.

[Idaho]

Just now, NearFall said:

That was all ifs and maybes and coulds.  I was looking for something more definitive than that.

If you want the real definitive than you will probably have to call Zeke or travel to Stanford. It's like a dual match where there are two starters listed and the coach keeps it under wraps until the match happens. Nummer was taken out of Track  and seeding and replaced by Norfleet.... until they swap again and take Norfleet out, that's who ASU has entered in the tournament right now. 

[CraigOR]

Ok the conf. championships page has an updated bracket w/Norfleet in 197

[Idaho]

Action starts at 10am PT with round 1 

Live streams of each mat below - Finals will be on Pac-12 network. I hope Stanford has improved their video streaming since the 2020 tournament, when the camera stayed focused on the center, didnt' move and you missed any action on the edges. 

https://admin.gostanford.com/gameday/wrestling-vs-pac-12-championships/wrestling/4761/