fishbane
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Posts posted by fishbane
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I think Sanderson closing in on Gable's for the most individual NCAA champs by a coach is the most significant record on the table. Staroocci getting 5 is really only significant if he doesn't get it done and the team points record depends on too many factors. Below are the top 20 coaches by number of individual NCAA champions. I compiled it myself and there could be errors or omissions, but I think it's pretty accurate.
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7 hours ago, Caveira said:
Why is overall bonus % not relevant here. It is still only 4 of 20 bonus wins. Yes 3 were falls. Do all of the 4 timers.
Bonus points also became easier to get last year and Starocci didn't get any at NCAAs for the first time. This was after majoring the 4th place finisher 11-0 earlier that year at the NWCA All Star Classic. There are a lot of ways things can go, but his performance could improve from last year.
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4 hours ago, Caveira said:
To put in perspective. This year. Least dominant ncaa champ by bonus wins.
sorted in order by weight…. The zero is Cstar
2,4,2,2,4,2,0,4,4,3
Before the injury last season he had scored bonus in every match except Rocco Welsh. Majored Mekhi Lewis at the NWCA All Star Classic too. I think there is some room for improvement for him.
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There are several significant records within reach for the Nittany Lions this year. How many do they accomplish by the end of the season?
1) Most NCAA Championships by a single wrestler - current record 4 (Pat Smith, Cael Sanderson, Kyle Dake, Logan Stieber, Yianni Diakomihalis, Aaron Brooks, and Carter Starocci)
Carter Starocci enters the season with 4 NCAA titles. Should he win again he will be the only person with 5.
2) Most individual NCAA champions by a single coach - current record 45 (Dan Gable)
With 4 individual champions last season Sanderson moved past Ed Gallagher and Harold Nichols into second on the all-time list with 40 NCAA champs. If PSU gets 5 - a total they have done twice before - he will match Gable in only his 18th NCAA tournament as a head coach. It's on the table with PSU returning 3 NCAA champs and 2 runner-ups.
3) Most individual NCAA champions by a team in a single season - current record 5 (Iowa 1986, 1997; OSU 2005; PSU 2017, 2022).
PSU returns 3 NCAA Champions (Haines, Starocci, and Kerkvliet), 2 runner-ups (Bartlett and Mesenbrink), 2 3rd place finishers (Van Ness and Kasak), and another wrestler who was the 1 seed at NCAA's last year (Davis). Five champs is a possibility. PSU will be the only team to do it for a 3rd time if it happens.
4) Most AAs by a team in a single season - current record 10 (Minnesota 2001)
PSU could field returning AAs at 133, 141, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184, and 285. The remaining two weights, 125 and 197 are likely to feature freshman that have medaled at junior worlds. It could happen.
5) Most team points at the NCAA tournament - current record 172.5 (PSU 2024)
This is largely the same team that set the record. They return 133 of the record setting point total and after adding Shayne Van Ness's 15.5 team points from 2023 this team returns 148.5. A better result at 125 and 133 along with more bonus points from a healthy Carter Starocci and it could happen.
6) Longest dual winning streak in Penn State history - current record 60 match (PSU 2015-2019)
This PSU team enters the year on a 56 match winning streak going back to 2020. PSU opens with duals against Drexel, Lehigh, Wyoming, Binghamton, and Arkansas - Little Rock. They will be favored heavily in all 5.
7) Longest dual winning streak by a single coach - current record 69 matches (OSU/Ed Gallagher 1921-1932, OSU/John Smith 1996-1999, Iowa/Brands 2008-2011)
PSU has 15 duals on the schedule and they will be favored in all of them. If they win the first 13 Sanderson/PSU will match the record. The Iowa duals is in the first 13 so Iowa has a chance to block them from doing this.
If PSU keeps the winning streak going they will end the season with 71 straight wins and only 5 behind the longest winning streak by any school. It took OSU 14 years and two coaches to set that record when they won 76 sgtright matches between 1937 and 1951. They could also break the record for the longest unbeaten dual streak which is 84 (OSU/Roderick 1959-1966 and Iowa/Brands 2008-2012). That would require them to run the table this year and win at least the first 14 duals next year.
Are there any other milestones Sanderson and Penn State could reach in the near term?
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On 10/13/2024 at 11:13 AM, Hammerlock3 said:
Tell me what the discussion is, to me it sounds like I'm saying "there are likely downsides to bringing in ferrari and it might even be a bad idea" and you're saying "No its definitely a good idea no matter what."
That's not what I'm saying at all. There is significant risk for a top team to take him. And there is significant risk this could not work out at Bakersfield. Bakersfield just has a lot less to lose compared with PSU, Iowa, OSU, Ohio State, Cornell ect. There is also upside to bringing Ferrari in. The fact that he ended up at Bakersfield ranked 76/77 teams in D1 last season is evidence of the significant risk Ferrari brings with him. Somewhere around there is where the reward matches/exceeds the risk.
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23 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:
No the worst case is the program gets dropped, and sincee there is no way of turning in any real results as a team, its best if the admins at least think you have a bunch of pleasant guys who make grades and stay out of trouble.
They're pretty close to the floor but it doesn't change the fact that if they are bringing in guys who make building culture impossible you are at best robbing peter to pay paul.
You're right again it could be worse, but let's not be so unimaginative that dropping the program is the worst thing that could happen. People could die. That car accident in Oklahoma could have killed someone. If he's learned nothing and continues driving in that manner he could kill someone in Bakersfield.
I don't have any inside information, but from the outside it appears they are more than just bad.
2020-21: 0-2
2021-22: 2-10
2022-23: 1-11
2023-24: 0-12
Wrestlestat had them ranked 76 of 77 teams last year. They wrestled #67 American and got crushed 36-8. They wrestled #65 Hofstra and lost 29-9. That was the closest dial of the year. The thing about Hofstra and AU is that even though they are bottom 15 programs they win sometimes and they're good students. Both teams were in the top 20 in team GPA in D1. Bakersfield was not in the top 30 list published by the NWCA. With 77 teams in D1 it can be inferred that across D1 wrestling teams they have average to below average grades being ranked somewhere 31-77.
Bakersfield's regular conference doesn't sponsor the sport and their wrestling affiliate conference has an uncertain future. I am sure it's an expensive problem to administer since it requires a lot of travel - only 4 schools in the state have teams at the D1 level, and I get the feeling they don't provide enough money to do it.
No assistants coaches in mid October? That is crazy. I can't imagine the head coach suddenly thought they were unnecessary and could do it all himself. He's had assistants before so I suspect he either wasn't able to find anyone willing to do it for the compensation on offer or he eventually found someone, but the SID couldn't be bothered to update the website. Even the later isn't great. The team is such an after thought sports information doesn't update the website. But at the same time who could blame them? There is no recap of the 2024 PAC-12 championships on the website. You try writing a recap for a team where every wrestler went 0-3 (dead last) except one that went 1-2 and finished next to last.
As I said before, taking Ferrari on is a risk vs reward proposition. The head coach would be best positioned to make that assessment and weigh the possibilities. He might be keeping him on a tight leash and plan to dismiss him at the first minor infraction so as to prevent a major issue that takes out the entire program. Or he may know that the program is currently circling the drain and will give Ferrari carte blanche to operate knowing that he might just win multiple NCAA titles, create a buzz on social media that leads to new recruits including possibly one of his brothers, and save the program. I can't think of an example where is a single student athlete has been blamed for a program being dropped, but I can think of one credited with saving a program.
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9 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:
The fact that they are terrible at wrestling doesn't mean the locker room can't get a lot more toxic. Particularly since building culture gets real difficult if you can't hold the only talent on the team to the rules that need to be imposed on everyone else.
I mean that's true, but you gotta look at the potential consequences of a toxic locker room. Toxic locker rooms make it difficult to retain and/or recruit talent. This is a non-factor. Toxic locker rooms can drag down the performance of the team. This is a non-factor. The only real threat is if Ferrari does something outright illegal and involves his teammates just a total implosion taking out multiple team members. It's a legit risk. So worst case you have to totally clean house and rebuild back to an 0-12 program. Sounds doable.
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On 10/10/2024 at 12:35 PM, Hammerlock3 said:
its possible, I've heard Ferrari is a great teammate, but if he's not and it turns out they are just dropping in two narcissistic criminals it will absolutely get worse.
Clearly there is a risk/reward proposition in taking on Ferrari. Iowa missed out on Chittum by pursuing Anthony. Albert probably ended up at Bakersfield because there isn't a whole lot to lose. Who is going to leave? The assistant coaches? They won't have any. The wrestlers? All them went 0-3 to finish dead last (6th place) at their weight at the PAC-12 championships last year except 1 guy who finished in 5th going 1-2. These are replacement level wrestlers so they could easily be replaced. What's left? The head coach? He was 0-12 last year and 1-11 the year before.
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42 minutes ago, Hammerlock3 said:
You give them the benefit of the doubt a bit more cause they're getting paid though. Its not a great benefit of the doubt, but i try not to be cynical about money.
Compare that to two guys who were getting money and slid down to a team with none...
Locker room probably wasn't great place before these transfers arrived. Team is coming off an 0-12 season and has 0 assistant coaches listed on the website. They were 1-11 the year before. Probably a decent chance these guys have a positive impact in the locker room and get guys doing more.
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On 9/30/2024 at 1:22 PM, mspart said:
Taxing mileage is invasive of privacy in my opinion. Unless you have to go to a place and they record your mileage. Government does not need to know where you go on a daily basis.
mspart
Isn't this already done through annual or biennial safety/emission inspections in a lot of states? In CA there is smog inspection that is required for ICE cars to register/renew a registration. Mileage could be recorded and the tax added to the registration renewal. EVs are exempt from smog inspection so they would just need to have them stop by an inspection station to record milage before renewing the registration. Or at least that is one implementation.
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1 hour ago, Scouts Honor said:
thats whats causing global warming
too many species!!!!
the earth is about to correct itself again
So you're saying the inhabitants of Earth are causing global warming? I thought that was the thing that was up for debate.
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21 hours ago, mspart said:
There are 3 periods of significant rapid rise. I have those circled. None of them started as low as we are now. I'm guessing man had nothing to do with the earlier instances.
mspart
The increases you've circled in red coincide with some of the largest mass extinction events in Earth's history. I think that coincidence justifies the concern scientists have with the current rate of increase. It should be pointed out that the time scale on the x axis in the Post graphic is in millions of years and the increase circled in black has occurred over less than 100 years.
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Fix has a chance against anyone in this country. He's beaten them all Gilman, Gross, Arujau, Lee, Suriano.
I would bet against Fix beating Arujau at 133lbs, but down at 57kg it's different. Fix could get it done there. He could be the rep in 4 years.
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51 minutes ago, mspart said:
I agree, the SS agents on the ground did exactly what we all expect them to do and we should all be grateful to them. I don't think anyone is saying different. But that still does not answer the question about how why this guy waited there for 12 hours to get a shot off at Trump?
I think the why he waited 12 hours was to get a shot at Trump. Why he waited 12 hours to get a shot at Trump probably comes down to him not knowing exactly when Trump would be at the place he had scooted and prepared. If he had known when Trump would show up he might have dropped in 15 minutes before. Or maybe he did know and he though getting in early in darkness would make it less likely to be discovered.
58 minutes ago, mspart said:How did he know Trump would be there Monday Morning?
How do you know he knew? Didn't this happen Sunday?
1 hour ago, mspart said:And how did he know this 12 hours (at the very least) ahead of time?
How do you know he knew? He could have been going there every Sunday until Trump showed up? He could have got lucky. He could increase his chances of running into him by looking at his campaign schedule to see when he is more likely to be in town. Much of his time is public knowledge. I'm sure he usually travels with a significant number of staff and security. He could have surveilled elsewhere to see if they were around Saturday and deduced that means Trump is also around and thus likely to play golf the following day.
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2 hours ago, Paul158 said:
Are you being purposely obtuse? Try doing some real research. He voted once for Trump BUT HAS SINCE BEEN A STAUNCH SUPPORTER of democrats and their policies.
My understanding is that he is a registered independent who at times has voted for Republicans and other times for democrats. Seems inaccurate to refer to him as the opposition party.
3 hours ago, Paul158 said:Did you read that the only way they were able to catch him was because a bystander saw him. He pulled out his phone and got a picture of him ,his car and the License plate. Nothing he left on the ground aided in his capture. These are the words from the Sheriff that apprehended him. The Sheriff said without the bystander the shooter would be still out there.
This is because he was caught swiftly. You use the evidence that provides the quickest path to the suspect. Since a bystander saw him and provided the license plate they didn't have to examine the evidence at the golf course to find him. With the number of times this guy has been arrested there is a decent chance that he'd have DNA or fingerprints in the system which could be obtained from the belongings he left behind and used to identify him. This will still be useful to link him to the attempt vs just a guy who happened to be seen by a bystander near the gold course.
I wouldn't expect at the secret service to have enough agents with Trump on the golf course to set up a perimeter in time to contain him. It's just not feasible. Golf courses are very large.
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Levi Haines and Connor Mirasola were the only PSU wrestlers at the WTT this weekend. That might not mean anything, but maybe it indicates those two are redshirting. Levi Haines had some impressive wins (Keegan O'Toole and Evan Wick so maybe he won't be the odd man out 157-174lbs this year
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12 hours ago, RockLobster said:
He was not complying with the order to exit the vehicle.
When wasn't he complying with that? 3s after the initial statement when he first says he was getting out? When he took his seatbelt off, opened the door, and moved his foot outside the vehicle - was he not complying through any of that?
12 hours ago, RockLobster said:He delayed as much as reasonably possible while talking on a cell phone.
This sound like another way of saying the delay wasn't unreasonably long. Probably means the office should have been more patient as the amount of time it took was reasonable.
12 hours ago, RockLobster said:He was non-compliant for that duration.
I realize that then the person you are arguing on behalf of is in the wrong it may be tempting to make any argument that goes your way, but this is incredibly weak. He was not complying with the order to exit the vehicle for 8s during which time he 1) said he was getting out, 2) unbuckled his seatbelt, 3) opened the door, and 4) swung his leg outside the car all whilst talking on the phone with his agent who is also a lawyer. So it wasn't some unrelated call. If the police allowed him to speak with his agent/lawyer it may have mediated the tense situation.
12 hours ago, RockLobster said:When the doors were opened, he put his leg out of the door. But made no effort to get out in any way. None.
The purpose of the detention was to cite and/or warn Hill for the moving violation and to do so in a safe manner. Before the order to exit the vehicle the officers had everything they needed to write him the tickets. They wanted the window down to be able to observe him for reasons of officer safety. Okay fine. He opens it, but they aren't satisfied with how open it is, so they order him to exit the vehicle. Supreme Court case law (Mimms) says they can do this. He takes off his belt and opens the door.
As soon as the door opens Hills leg swings outside the automobile as the officer is reaching for him and grabs him. He stops moving or at least slows down after the officer grabs him. Why is the officer grabbing him? Is that justified?
I don't think so for a couple reasons. 1) Hill was complying 2) The officer seemed to grab him as soon as the door opened and not in reaction to any delay after the door opened even though Hill is telling him he is getting out 3) There was no officer safety reason for it. If they were satisfied from an officer safety standpoint with an open window an open door provides even greater visibility. If the argument is that Hill was moving slowly after the door was open then there isn't really an officer safety argument for expediting it. The door is wide open they have full visibility of Hill and his movement. The open door negates the threat of him reaching for a weapon they can't see because of tinted windows. The car is surrounded by police. There is no immediate threat. Let him slowly exit.
There really isn't any thing Hill could have done differently that would fully satisfy apologists for the Miami police when exiting the vehicle. If swiftly exits the vehicle some would say the police were justified in grabbing him because the swift exit could be interpreted as attempting to run. If he exits slowly and deliberately as he was doing then it's that slow is somehow noncompliance.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:One officer decided enough was enough, and yanked him out despite his non-compliance.
To me that video had enough before that. He was intent on somehow winning the encounter with Hill and likely made the decisions to put hands on him before the door opened. He forgot what officers are supposed to do on a traffic stop - write the ticket. It takes the officers nearly 20 minutes to write the tickets and only start after some more important looking cops show up and tell them to.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:That was not a easy task, this was a fit top NFL player... who then responded, in shock, "Damn..." Watch it again. It's not difficult to see.
Hill was not voluntarily exiting the vehicle. He was trying his best to stay in the vehicle and delay.
That is a creative interpretation. Here is an alternative interpretation. Hill says damn not because he's surprised at the officer's strength and ability to drag him out of the car, but that he's surprised the officer would grab him at all since he is exiting the vehicle on his own.
Saying Hill wasn't exiting the vehicle is at odds with Hill statements and actions. Hill says he exiting the car. How can you intelligently argue against his on-site visual record especially when his actions in the video support that? 1) said he was exiting. 2) Removed seatbelt 3) opened door 4) started exiting the vehicle by swinging leg outside of the door 5) grabbed by officer.
Finally I am confident in saying if Hill was trying his best to stay in the vehicle he would have stayed in the vehicle longer.
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3 minutes ago, 1032004 said:
FWIW, I’m not a cop or a lawyer, but I once received a seatbelt ticket for taking my seatbelt off after being pulled over.
It is may vary by state. The Florida statute specifies the vehicle must be in motion. The officer may have seen it after the vehicle stopped and extrapolated to before the stop.
QuoteIt is unlawful for any person 18 years of age or older to be a passenger in the front seat of a motor vehicle or an autocycle unless such person is restrained by a safety belt when the vehicle or autocycle is in motion.
Here is an example of an officer erroneously extrapolating to before the stop. It's a good idea to keep it on. Fortunately for the lady in that video she had a dash cam that recorded the seatbelt removal.
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12 hours ago, RockLobster said:
Get over this one. A crime is committed when someone breaks the law. Those that do so are criminals.
Try to use your lawyer schmawyer bullshit to try to misdirect the simple words of the english language into lawyer speak.
Doesn't change a single thing when we aren't in court.
Who is talking about lawyers? I bet the officer that pulled him over wouldn't refer to the charge as a crime. He's read the law and knows it's defined as a noncriminal violation. Not all violations of the law are crimes, but all crimes are violations of the law.
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1 hour ago, RockLobster said:
Except you'd be changing the facts about what actually occurred. The seatbelt violation was reported as being observed prior to the stop.
Who has made the claim that the seatbelt violation was observed before the stop? I haven't seen that claimed by anyone other than you. Hill's lawyer said
“We don’t have any of the official police reports to state as to why he would plead guilty, as to why, whether or not he had his seat belt on. At one point, they were able to visibly see that Mr. Hill didn’t have his seat belt on. Was it at the time of the traffic stop? You can take it off at that point before the officer got to the vehicle. We don’t have any information. So, naturally, he’s going to plead not guilty until we see the police report.”
If Hill's lawyer doesn't know I don't know how you know. It's safe to say the officer saw it when he asked and pointed to it. Before the stop making the stop - I'm skeptical and no one is making that claim. It would be a great question to ask the officer. Because it doesn't matter how the officer answers it. Either way it helps Hill. If he says he couldn't see that he wasn't wearing it before making the stop then there is reasonable doubt the violation occurred. If he says he did then show the video and ask the officer to point out where he first spotted the violation. The court can then judge how likely or unlikely his testimony is to be true. Having watched the video I suspect this will hurt his credibility.
12 hours ago, RockLobster said:You don't know (neither do I.) Which is why I had posted that we can't comment on it... but it may have been more clear to have posted that "we can't intelligently comment on it."
So, sure anyone can comment. Intelligence be damned. That is the bulk of the internet. But I prefer intelligent posting.
Not really. We have the officer's body cam. It will tell show you at least the position of the officer and the car for the entire time before the stop. The camera might have a different angle or looking in a different direction, but you can make an educated guess as to what the officer can see from that position. If the officer ultimately says he could see it before making the stop, you and the court wouldn't havee to take what he says as truth. Just use a little critical thinking.
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13 hours ago, RockLobster said:
I disagree with you strongly on some of these points:
1) Severity - agreed, not major.
Not here. Minor non-criminal violation.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:2) Threat
- Hill took a threatening pose immediately by aggressively and repeatedly questioning the officer. This was a red flag that was of Hill's own doing. It was unacceptable behavior and set the stage for all that came after.
- Hill's reluctance to open his window, keep it open, and open it again after he closed it all posed a threat
- Weapons may or may have been part of the scenario, but the chaos at this point would have masked any.
- Agree with me or not, but at this point I believe the safe procedure would be to remove Hill from the vehicle.
The actual criteria from Supreme Court case is "whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others." I think it's hard to argue that any point during the stop there was an immediate threat
- You use immediate and threat in this bullet, but then your description of the behavior is aggressive repeated questioning. That isn't illegal and it isn't a threat. It's nothing. Hill telling the officer not to bang on his window is irrelevant.
- The window being tinted and Hill not wanting it to roll it down all the way or keep it down does pose a threat to the officers but not really an immediate one.
- Weapons are potentially part of any police interaction, but the police did not see any weapons when the window was open. They also didn't pat him down or check him for weapons after pulling him out, which makes me think they weren't too worried about weapons
- I agree that the police were justified in issuing him a command to exit the vehicle. The Graham factors address use of force not having him exit the vehicle.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:3) Resistence - Hill attempted to remain in the car and delay as much as reasonably possible. It was over soon after.
Three seconds from the time he was told to exit the vehicle he said he would exit the vehicle. 8s after the initial command he was exiting the vehicle. We agree any delay was a reasonable amount of time.
Under Graham the court looks at what a reasonable officer would do under the totality of the circumstances. Yeah a reasonable officer might ask him to exit the vehicle. But the use of force as he is exiting is unreasonable. What can you point to in the Graham factors or otherwise justifies the use of force on a man exiting a vehicle like that?
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13 hours ago, RockLobster said:
Meh. Was he complying? That is certainly debatable.
The only command he needed to comply with was the one to exit the vehicle. I don't think anyone could watch that video and conclude he was not exiting the vehicle.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:Force may have increased the chance of someone being hurt, but (IMO) decreased the chance of that someone being the police or the general public.
So you think one of those officers is more likely to get hurt just standing there and watching him slowly exit the vehicle than grabbing him pulling him out and jumping on him? Yeah okay.
13 hours ago, RockLobster said:These guys are just doing their job trying to make the general public safe. By all reports, Hill was making the general public less safe. That was on him.
Not true. The police accused careless driving. Hill says he didn't do anything. Sounds like conflicting reports.
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13 hours ago, RockLobster said:
I don't know either. Neither of us was there. We couldn't possibly comment on it either way without being there.
Yet the police did see the seatbelt violation per their on-site visual record. These are things they are trained to see.
I said I don't know, but it's more that I don't believe that the officer saw it before stopping him. Sure we can comment on it. Hill said "He didn't do nothing." How could you possibly comment on that? Take his on-site visual record at face value. Neither of us were there.
This and the semantics surrounding the word crime/criminal all goes back to your original statement
QuoteThis is a driver who has broken at least two laws and was now being pulled over for criminal behavior. It's not like he didn't do anything wrong - he had. And he all but admitted it.
An even handed rephrasing would be that. A Miami police officer saw a car driving a speed that appeared in excess of the posted speed limit. A traffic stop was initiated. Upon approaching the vehicle the officer noticed the driver was not wearing a seatbelt. Subsequently two citations for minor traffic violations were issued.
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6 hours ago, WrestlingRash said:
so your employer is cool with you doing things on company time that aren't for your job? his job is to coach, not compete. how is that so hard for you to comprehend?
OSU was coole with John Smith wrestling at worlds on 1991, the Olympic trials in 1992, and the Olympics in 1992 when he was head coach. Not sure why this would be a problem. That was Smiths first year as head coach too.
Lewis & Keck & Kem Oh My!
in College Wrestling
Posted
There is an argument to be made for 2021 Kemerer. He had beaten Mark Hall during 2019-2020. I think all of people would say that Mark Hall is better than Keckeisen's best win, which is probably Trent Hidlay. Although maybe not since Hidlay retired Mark Hall at the OTT this year. He also obviously beat 2021 Carter Starocci. Kemerer also dominated Bernie Truax 8-1 at NCAAs in 2021. The following year in 2022 Keckeisen split with Truax at NCAAs.