Strategy vs. Straight Wrestling....

[The_KC_Godfather]

Two things I had a hard time with in the tournament/finals...and disagree with me if you want, but....

1) There is an impression that OSU (John Smith in particular) pushes the envelope on "fairness"....complaining a lot, throwing the brick a lot, etc. He has a lot of influence in decision making for rules, refs, etc., so my opinion is that ref's are scared of him (and Cael). Ragusin mentioned in his post-match video with Daton that the OSU coaches are going to whine and complain to get their way.  Vito clearly felt the same way after the final (And i was rooting for and wanted Fix to get a title). A national broadcast on ESPN should never have more review time than wrestling time...not if we want to grow the sport.

When did this become a thing vs. just out-wrestling someone?  Why are we relying on challenges, complaining, etc. to win matches?  I understand if it's a legit bad call...and there were a lot during this tournament...but seemed like overkill to me in the 133 final.  I also think it's ridiculous that these coaches try to sway the ref's by yelling things like "stalling! locked hands! That's 3! He's out!", etc.  I heard so much of that watching on TV this weekend...WATCHING ON TV...not even there...where it was clearly the opposite.  These coaches need to quit worrying about technicalities and just teach their dam guys how to win without trying to sway the ref.  I love Alex Clemsen...was a fan when he was in HS and at Edinboro...but he's one of the worst I've ever seen with this.

2) Messenbrink thinking that he had OT to win the match (not knowing that Carr had a RT point).  Why are you planning to take it to OT instead of pushing to win the match in regulation?  To me, that really made "strategy" look dumb, instead of just wrestling and winning the dam thing in regulation.

I'm not a current college wrestler, nor was I ever at the level of the guys I speak of.  BUT...I was always taught that you never let the ref or time decide the outcome of your match.  There were a lot of OT matches and a lot of poor calls by the officials this year (as always).  But frankly, the complaining about the poor calls is what makes them take forever to review calls, to make sure they get it right and don't get fired/hampered on.  Accountability is important...but so is keeping casual fans of ESPN engaged. I don't know the right answer, but it's an issue. I personally liked what Kerk did...kept trying to score after he'd obviously won it. That ensures no chance of Davison coming back and catching him.  Never stop wrestling....

[billyhoyle]

17 minutes ago, The_KC_Godfather said:

Two things I had a hard time with in the tournament/finals...and disagree with me if you want, but....

1) There is an impression that OSU (John Smith in particular) pushes the envelope on "fairness"....complaining a lot, throwing the brick a lot, etc. He has a lot of influence in decision making for rules, refs, etc., so my opinion is that ref's are scared of him (and Cael). Ragusin mentioned in his post-match video with Daton that the OSU coaches are going to whine and complain to get their way.  Vito clearly felt the same way after the final (And i was rooting for and wanted Fix to get a title). A national broadcast on ESPN should never have more review time than wrestling time...not if we want to grow the sport.

When did this become a thing vs. just out-wrestling someone?  Why are we relying on challenges, complaining, etc. to win matches?  I understand if it's a legit bad call...and there were a lot during this tournament...but seemed like overkill to me in the 133 final.  I also think it's ridiculous that these coaches try to sway the ref's by yelling things like "stalling! locked hands! That's 3! He's out!", etc.  I heard so much of that watching on TV this weekend...WATCHING ON TV...not even there...where it was clearly the opposite.  These coaches need to quit worrying about technicalities and just teach their dam guys how to win without trying to sway the ref.  I love Alex Clemsen...was a fan when he was in HS and at Edinboro...but he's one of the worst I've ever seen with this.

2) Messenbrink thinking that he had OT to win the match (not knowing that Carr had a RT point).  Why are you planning to take it to OT instead of pushing to win the match in regulation?  To me, that really made "strategy" look dumb, instead of just wrestling and winning the dam thing in regulation.

I'm not a current college wrestler, nor was I ever at the level of the guys I speak of.  BUT...I was always taught that you never let the ref or time decide the outcome of your match.  There were a lot of OT matches and a lot of poor calls by the officials this year (as always).  But frankly, the complaining about the poor calls is what makes them take forever to review calls, to make sure they get it right and don't get fired/hampered on.  Accountability is important...but so is keeping casual fans of ESPN engaged. I don't know the right answer, but it's an issue. I personally liked what Kerk did...kept trying to score after he'd obviously won it. That ensures no chance of Davison coming back and catching him.  Never stop wrestling....

For 1) Smith has always had this type of rep. Even his best teams were criticized for their passive wrestling style/playing the edge/stalling on top). 
 

For 2) if it’s a tie match, you don’t want to give up an easy counter attack against a guy like Carr who can shoot and finish in a second. Waiting to OT is common and not a bad thing. And the concept of not leaving the match in the hands of the refs doesn’t really apply in this match because it was just poor match awareness/coaching-and with 2 age level world champions like this the match is going to be close no matter what.