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Okay, this is for martial artists(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kempo, Eskrima, etc.) or those interested in martial arts(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Eskrima, Lethwei, Kajukenbo, etc.). If you guys want to try Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool wrestling because you think that Amateur-Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle) are martial arts or combat science, YOU ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WRONG! Yes, many people often say that amateur wrestling makes great fighters but fighters and martial artists ARE NOT THE SAME! A fighter is simply just someone who fights while a martial artist is a combat artist that can be a person that avoids real fights. For example, an untrained street fighter is not a martial artist but he is clearly a fighter because fighting is what he does. Here's a thing about amateur wrestling. They ESPECIALLY US HIGHSCHOOL FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING do not have techniques or even fight IQ. They absolutely have zero when it comes to that. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, why do people think that amateur wrestling is special and a great way to be a fighter if they have no techniques or fight IQ involved?” Well, Amateur Wrestling is not special because they “have techniques or fight IQ”. They are seen as special and a great background for fighters because of… Wait for it… THE GRIND!!! THE PHYSICAL CONDITIONING!! ALL OF IT!! PLUS THE WEIGHTCUTTING!!! That's exactly what sets amateur wrestling apart from martial arts(I didn't put “other” between “from” and “martial arts” because that would imply that amateur wrestling is a martial art, a combat science, or involves fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategy.). Not techniques, fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategies. The truth is that the training in Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, and US Scholastic Wrestling are all 96% physical conditioning plus the weightcutting. And absolutely no learning techniques or experimenting and creating new techniques. What I mean by physical conditioning in Amateur Wrestling is that you aren't fighting or sparring or learning techniques. It means you are basically trying to be an extreme form of a gymnast gym-freak doing a lot of cardio. If you call amateur wrestling, especially US Folkstyle Wrestling a martial art due to their physical conditioning, then you might as well also call all non-combat sports(soccer, gridiron football, tracks, baseball, cheerleading, etc.) of Olympics and highschool as martial arts. Again, amateur wrestling is literally you becoming an extreme gymnast gym-freak cardio-freak. I am going to say it right now. The truth is that Amateur Wrestling, especially US Scholastic Wrestling has far more similarities and is far closer to US highschool cheerleading than to the likes of Judo, Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, BJJ, Boxing, etc. Also, compared to martial artists such as BJJ, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Judo, Muay-Thai, etc. who tend to be individualistic hobbyists, amateur wrestlers especially US highschool wrestlers tend to have national(and sometimes wide international) and institutional support and tend to be extremely collective and extremely regimented like the a professional national military which is why they often have far more edge than those individualistic martial artists and hobbyists when it comes to physical conditioning and training structure. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, if amateur wrestling indeed has no techniques or fight IQ, then how come they are able to do body movements that most normal untrained people can't do such as suplexes, chain wrestling, double leg takedowns, etc.” Well amateur wrestlers do not learn techniques or have fight IQ to execute those movements. It's their physical conditioning and weightcutting that allows them to execute those movements. You don't need techniques or IQ to do them. You just have to have an able enough body to do so. I mean asked yourselves. Seriously, Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling is primarily a sport especially institutional academics-school sports. Not martial arts or even about combat. Why do you think highschool basketball players can do dunks, dynamic superb ball dribblings, and three-points hoop shots? Why do you think highschool gymnasts can do backflips? Why do you think highschool soccer players can do bicycle kicks? It's not because they are martial artists nor do they use techniques nor IQ but because of their physical conditioning and their regimented collective institutional training structure. Same thing with Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling. If you think that amateur wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle) is this advanced form of grappling that is one of the most advanced, diverse, and developed in techniques and fight IQ in all of the world, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY FUCKING WRONG. When it comes to techniques and fight IQ, amateur wrestling is actually far lesser advanced than almost all typical obscure non-Western foreign ethnic folk wrestling styles you can find all over the world in any nation or country such as Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil Wrestling, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Korean Ssireum, Central Asian Uzbek Kurash, Bultong, etc. Seriously, take off the physical conditioning of amateur wrestlers and any average wrestler from any of those foreign obscure non-Western folk wrestling styles(Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil Wrestling, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Korean Ssireum, Central Asian Uzbek Kurash, Bultong, etc.) will decisively and absolutely embarrass, humiliate, and destroy the best amateur wrestlers especially US Scholastic Wrestlers. Let me tell you some other important things about Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle). Many people think that Amateur-Wrestling is this martial art that is super advanced in techniques and fight IQ because they have this idea that it is originally a military art practiced by ancient warriors and ancient soldiers in Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. Sorry to say but that origin theory is a myth and isn't supported by Historical Science. All of the real wrestling styles and all of the real grappling styles practiced and used by Ancient Greeks, Ancient Macedonians, and Ancient Romans in the battlefield are long forgotten and lost to history. This idea that Amateur Wrestling came from Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome was conceived due to Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling being called Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling due to the emphasis of both Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling being focused on upper body wrestling the same way the Ancient Greeks, the Ancient Macedonians, and Ancient Romans focused on upper body fighting when it comes to wrestling and grappling but that's where the similarities end. Really, it turns out that Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling was originally called Greco-Roman Wrestling by an Italian Wrestler as a way of branding it to make it seem connected to the Ancient Greco-Roman Hellenistic world. It's a way to make Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling appealing to many people. But that's a myth. Really, the real origin of Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling is that Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling originated as a collection of folk wrestling styles of 1700s AD France. It doesn't have a military origin. Them being folk wrestling styles means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. This means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. That's what it means when people say Folk Wrestling. And that's only just Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling. I don't why people think that all of Amateur Wrestling originated in Ancient Greece when Freestyle and US Folkstyle are clearly different. Freestyle Wrestling came from British folk wrestling styles. There is no military origin. Again, them being folk wrestling styles means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. This means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. Again, that's what it means when people say Folk Wrestling. As for US Folkstyle Wrestling, it is rooted in Freestyle Wrestling but with added rural folk wrestling origins from the first American settlers in what is now the USA. Due to this, US Folkstyle Wrestling also has influences from native American folk wrestling styles. So yeah, US Folkstyle Wrestling is originally a form of Folk Wrestling which means that they are not military in origin but village civilian past times. Again, this means not highly technical or sophisticated in IQ and more for community boding or celebration games for rural countryside civilian villagers. This is why special forces, military soldiers, law enforcement, and SWAT teams prioritize BJJ over Amateur Wrestling including highschool wrestling because special operators, cops, and soldiers have no time to do the physical conditioning of Amateur Wrestling who have nothing to offer in terms of techniques, strategies, and fight IQ while BJJ offers a lot of various techniques including very lethal ones. The physical conditioning of spec ops operators comes from their military conditioning. They have no need for Amateur Wrestling conditioning. US Navy Seal officials do recruit many US highschool wrestlers for their superb physical conditioning but there isn't any standardized Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning in any of the US military. It's also why a commando who is trained in BJJ dominates and survives real-life dangerous or war hand-to-hand combat or melee fights compared to a former-US-highschool-wrestler turned commando who has no BJJ training. The latter has no real edge over the former who is already great in physical conditioning due to his military spec ops training regime and the former will most likely kill the latter in a real hand-to-hand combat fight to the death in a war. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, how can you say that Amateur wrestling has no strategy, techniques, nor fight IQ compared to striking arts such as Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, Boxing, Kickboxing, Shotokan, Taekwondo, etc. even though Amateur Wrestling is grappling? Grappling in general has far more IQ, techniques, and strategies than striking due to grappling using all of the body in far more diverse ways such as groundfighting, takedowns, takedown defense, body awareness, etc. while striking is just more into distance, timing, and limb marksmanships? This is evidenced by the fact that BJJ, a grappling art, is considered to be the most cerebral and intellectual martial arts and combat sports there is.” Again, STOP! Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Wrestling(US highschool and also Collegiate) have absolutely no techniques, strategies, and fight IQ. Why do you idiots keep forgetting that?! But here's a fact: To be honest, your average untrained unwashed street fighter probably does far more techniques, strategies, and fight IQ than a US highschool Scholastic Folkstyle Varsity-Wrestler captain, an NCAA All-American Collegiate Wrestling champion, and a gold-medalist elite Olympic Wrestling champion all three combined including in the grappling aspects. Now why is this? It's because Amateur Wrestling athletes, especially US Folkstyle highschool athletes tend to be spoiled rotten by their physical conditioning. Their physical conditioning is so powerful that they are used to dominating and beating people they come across through sheer physicality without even thinking. Never underestimate Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning. At least, untrained street fighters are creative in tactics compared to Amateur Wrestlers. Also, another reason is that street fights and real fights have more factors and are unpredictable compared to the extremely rule-based sport of Amateur Wrestling especially US Wrestling Wrestling where there are so many rules. This is why untrained testosterone-filled rowdy drunken moronic street fighters have far more thinking and far more strategies than Amateur wrestlers especially US Scholastic Wrestlers do. So yeah, Amateur Wrestling is not a martial art and will never be. It is ultimately and fundamentally a sport. Not a martial art. Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle Scholastic Highschool Wrestling) has no techniques, strategies, or fight IQ. I did not make this up. Plenty of highschool wrestlers especially the ones I personally know have said that they never really used techniques nor IQ and mostly just fought and won highschool wrestling matches through sheer physical power and sheer willpower. Highschool Wrestling like most US highschool sports(such as gridiron football, baseball, cheerleading, cricket, tennis, cross country, tracks, basketball, ice hockey, weightlifting, waterpolo, etc.) are primarily there to turn people into physically-fit confident people with great social and leadership skills and not into fighters nor martial artists. But this is not to discourage you guys from taking up Amateur Wrestling, especially highschool wrestling. The physical conditioning in Amateur Wrestling especially highschool wrestling is absolutely superb and will give you an amazing body. So if you want to become a military commandos, a bodyguard, an NFL player, a construction worker, or an NHL player, Amateur Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Scholastic Folkstyle) is a great way to be physically fit in those adult professions and adult careers. And again, when I mean by Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning, I mean that they are not skills. They are like going to the gym. They are baked into your body which means they become secondary instincts so when you wrestle in Amateur Wrestling, you don't even think about the physical conditioning at all. You just do them without even realizing it. But if you are just some person who is interested in the concept of martial arts techniques and combat IQ, then I am sorry but Amateur Wrestling especially US Folkstyle Highschool Wrestling will absolutely disappoint and bore you and will just make your life Hell because Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning is a hellish grind and will take up your whole teen life to the point like you have no other life. And that's not even counting their weightcutting which will then force you to eat foods you don't like and force you to not eat foods you like. Again, Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool Folkstyle Wrestling are not martial arts. If you take off techniques and fight IQ in martial arts, then they are no longer martial arts. Artistry is the main soul and essence of martial arts and combat science.

Hi! I am a 17-year old male German and I have a serious hardcore 50-member German HEMA community as a group of tight-knit German friends. We are all born and raised in Germany. 9 of us are females while the rest are males. We are very passionate about Kampfringen. We practice, spar, and frequently duel(not to the death) each other hard in Kampfringen. We all immigrated from Germany to the USA. We are all high-level Kampfringenists. Anyways, what the hell is up with Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes(collegiate and Olympic) we encounter here in the USA? They always try to request matches from us Kampfringen fighters. These American Greco-Roman guys also think they can fight in real life when in reality, they are literally just a bunch of glorified weightlifter brawlers and their sport is very minimal to zero techniques. We literally have a lot of American Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestlers who come to us and brag to us that they won all of their matches by “bullying” their opponents by using only superior willpower and superior physical fitness but with zero techniques. What the fuck? It's hilarious. These clowns always get literally killed in street fights I personally saw because they can't tell the difference between real fights and rule-based sport fights. Also, this shit happens a lot because they are arrogant pricks. A good number of these Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes are never taught by their coaches to de-escalate when others challenge them to street fights and instead, they are the ones who start street fights for no reason. But the most annoying thing is that these Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes often try to request matches from me and my Kampfringen fighter friends just because our German HEMA community is physically near their American universities and their American Wrestling RTCs even though we just want to be left alone. It's so annoying. These Americans now keep bugging us just because they heard that we are a serious competitive HEMA group and also heard that Kampfringen is a primarily-standing grappling martial art that is fanatical in standing up. Anyways, we always decisively beat these Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestlers in matches even in their own Greco-Roman rules. They think their HIIT will save them from us even though hardcore full-contact Kampfringenists from serious HEMA groups are as tough as nails as buhurt ringen fighters especially in physical conditioning. The difference is we actually have techniques compared to these Modern-Greco-Roman fools who are 90% physical conditioning. It's hilarious how they have no respect for the concept of techniques. Apparently, these Greco-Roman idiots think they can dominate us easily just because “Uh, Wraslin is the most dominant base in pro MMA”. And then I was laughing hard. These fools don't realize that the reason Wrestlers bullied everyone in pro MMA is: 1. Wrestlers make up the vast majority of the whole MMA world(pro, hobbyists, amateur, etc.) and both in numbers of losers and winners. 2. There are no true rival other non-Amature-Wrestling wrestling forms such as to present as a counter to Amateur Wrestling while Judo and Sambo are mostly used as support instead of their full skillsets. Every wrestler in MMA is almost overwhelmingly Amateur Wrestling. Even Khabib The Eagle was also a Wrestler and his Sambo was secondary support. He was first a Freestyle Wrestler in his youth. Not a Sambo player. 3. BJJ doesn't count because they are not true wrestlers. They're submission grapplers. 4. The rest are strikers and they'll get bullied anyway by grapplers. ____ So yeah, the result? We destroyed and embarrassed these Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes in front of their organizations and communities so they trash talked because they couldn't handle the ego hit. That's what happens when you think that you are the only real wrestling form in all of history. For fuck's sakes, wrestling forms are about the oldest forms of martial arts in history and they are like almost present in any culture and any nation. Like duh, we Kampfringenists are also wrestlers. Just not Amateur Wrestlers. So what did they expect? Also, we are not like Judokas who grip clothes nor do we trip or sweep people. We literally attack your true bodies by using explosive power except we are highly technical about it. We're knights especially Germans at that, you Greco-Roman fucks. These Wrestlers(like Freestyle and Folkstyle) are fucking fools. Apparently, they wanted to challenge us because their ego took a hit to the fact that Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling is not the only standing clinch-heavy wrestling in existence after they realized the standing grappling wrestling that Kampfringen is. So they wanted to challenge us in matches. It's so ridiculous. They literally think that Greco-Roman Wrestling is comparable to Kampfringen just because Greco-Roman Wrestling is “STANDING”. They can't tell the difference. Greco-Roman Wrestling being a standing martial art is not really about standing itself but more like throwing people as opposed to Freestyle and Folkstyle who are more into groundfighting and takedowns. It's just that you can't throw someone if you are not standing. Also, these Greco-Roman clowns think that they are all about “STANDING” just because they don't attack below the waist. Well that's because trying to bear hug people below the waist to throw them is extremely harder than Greco-Roman attacking the upper body because there is very little leverage due to the fact of weight imbalanced distribution and the torso is far heavier than the legs. That's why attacks below the waist are banned in Greco-Roman Wrestling. When it comes to attacks below the waists, all forms Amateur Wrestling athletes(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and Folkstyle) can only do takedowns but not throws. Anyways, Greco-Roman Wrestlers can't tell the difference between Greco-Roman Wrestling and Kampfringen when we say that Kampfringen is fanatically about standing. Greco-Roman Wrestling being standing is the fact that they stand to throw people around and they forbid attacks below the waists but they end up exactly like Folkstyle Wrestlers and Freestyle Wrestlers in that if they throw people, they also go to the ground with the people they threw and they stopped standing. As for Kampfringenists being fanatical standers, it's because they always remain standing and prioritized to never ever being taken to the ground against their will by any forms of attacks such as throws, slams, takedowns, off-balancing, etc. for like for example 12 whole rounds of a pro Boxing match. Also, Kampfringen has a lot of remain-standing(meaning the thrower never ever goes to the ground ever nor stops standing ever) throws and slams while these throws and slams are never present in Amateur Wrestling. Amateur Wrestling athletes are all the same. They slam or throw someone, they all go to the ground. And a lot of them including their most elite Olympic champions got slammed, thrown, put in the ground, and got their standing compromised a lot while these happen very rarely to zero to hardcore Ringen fighters especially elites from HEMA or Buhurt. Yes, this extreme remain-standing mandate in Ringen was born because Medieval German battlefields and Medieval German Knights realized that groundfighting, especially prolonged ones, are good ways to die. This is why many of historical Ringen are mostly all about heavy hard high-skill quick standing clinch fights while Ringen groundfighting is not the excessive unarmed mat work of US public highschool wrestling but more like quick kills by the use of weapons such as daggers. That's why I and my hard fellow German HEMA Kampfringenists destroyed these Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes in matches most of the time. That's what happens when you think you are the only wrestling form of existence. In all honesty, Amateur Wrestling is really nothing special in terms of techniques. They're just like any foreign obscure generic ethnic folk wrestling in the whole world. Seriously, what the hell is up with Modern Greco-Roman Wrestling athletes?

Sorry about this but this is a revised version of my original post because people found it to unpleasant to read. Anyways, this is for martial artists(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kempo, Eskrima, etc.) or those interested in martial arts(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Eskrima, Lethwei, Kajukenbo, etc.). If you guys want to try Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool wrestling because you think that Amateur-Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle) are martial arts or combat science, YOU ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WRONG! Yes, many people often say that amateur wrestling makes great fighters but fighters and martial artists ARE NOT THE SAME! A fighter is simply just someone who fights while a martial artist is a combat artist that can be a person that avoids real fights. For example, an untrained street fighter is not a martial artist but he is clearly a fighter because fighting is what he does. Here's a thing about amateur wrestling. They ESPECIALLY US HIGHSCHOOL FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING do not have techniques or even fight IQ. They absolutely have zero when it comes to that. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, why do people think that amateur wrestling is special and a great way to be a fighter if they have no techniques or fight IQ involved?” Well, Amateur Wrestling is not special because they “have techniques or fight IQ”. They are seen as special and a great background for fighters because of… Wait for it… THE GRIND!!! THE PHYSICAL CONDITIONING!! ALL OF IT!! PLUS THE WEIGHTCUTTING!!! That's exactly what sets amateur wrestling apart from martial arts(I didn't put “other” between “from” and “martial arts” because that would imply that amateur wrestling is a martial art, a combat science, or involves fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategy.). Not techniques, fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategies. The truth is that the training in Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, and US Scholastic Wrestling are all 96% physical conditioning plus the weightcutting. And absolutely no learning techniques or experimenting and creating new techniques.