Firu56Go

Why do people compare Amateur Wrestling such as Freestyle and Greco-Roman and especially Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling with Judo or BJJ when it comes to techniques even though Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling is actually very much similar to US public highschool male gridiron football and virtually have no similarities with Judo or BJJ? US public highschool male gridiron football can do many of the techniques of Amateur-Wrestling especially US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling but cannot do any of the techniques of Judo nor BJJ. Again, Amateur Wrestling especially US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling is extremely similar to US public highschool male gridiron football especially the footballers' linemen role. This is due to the fact that American gridiron football and Amateur-Wrestling especially US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling first prioritize explosive power and cardio with very minimal to absolutely zero technique while Judo and BJJ are very high and very diverse in techniques and fight IQ.

Wrestling is not a martial art.

You just have to accept that Wrestling is not a martial art.

Freestyle Wrestling, US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling, and Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling have nothing to do with whatever wrestling arts that Ancient Sumeria, Ancient Egypt, and Ancient Greece had. All of the martial arts of those Ancient civilizations are forever forgotten and lost to time and absolutely have no surviving descendant arts today. Freestyle Wrestling and US Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling did not descend from the wrestling styles of all of those Ancient civilizations and actually descended from Carnival Catch Wrestling which is formed by the collections of many rural civilian folk wrestling styles of 1700s AD Britain. Modern-Greco-Roman Wrestling did not descend from either Ancient Rome, Ancient Macedonia, nor Ancient Greece but actually came from the rural civilian folk wrestling styles of 1800s AD France. So it turns out, Amateur Wrestling or more often called as just "Wrestling" is actually pretty modern and not that old. As for Japanese Jujutsu(the ancestor of BJJ and Judo), it dates back to 710 to 794 AD while Karate traces back 1400 years ago to Chinese Shaolin Boxing. It turns out Wrestling is actually modern and much younger than BJJ and Karate.

Wrestling is not a combat system nor does it even have skills not techniques that can be improvised as a combat system.

Wrestling is not a martial art.

But Amateur-Wrestling is indeed not a martial art nor a combat system.

There you people go again about Amateur Wrestling athletes winning street fights without you giving me physical or observable evidence which is honestly nonsense because most people do not go around engaging in street fights because street fights are dangerous and chaotic and can often end in deaths. The real people who starts street fights are crazy and violent and cheat often such as by using numbers, weapons, dirty tactics, etc. Amateur Wrestling athletes are probably the most unlikely to engage in street fights because of how precious their careers are to them. They just de-escalate. And even if you win street fights, there is a high chance that you can get arrested which will ruin your life.

Are you stupid? HIIT gives you explosive power to do them in competitive levels. Without HIIT, those moves won't work in competitive levels. At best, you will only do them in untrained civilian levels. You are not getting what I am saying. I didn't say that Amateur Wrestling is a sport whose techniques are not for combat. I said that it has no techniques nor skills at all and is mostly just physical conditioning. Many Amateur Wrestling athletes confess that they didn't really use techniques at all and mostly just "BULLIED" their opponents in wrestling matches by using their superior elite physical conditioning. This isn't them saying that they beat their opponents because they said they have superior physical conditioning. It's them saying that they beat all of their opponents by LITERALLY using no techniques nor skills at all and mostly just relied on their extreme athleticism. You can't tell the difference between techniques and skills vs physical conditioning. Physical conditioning is not a skill. It is basically cardio, strength-training, bodybuilding, and physical fitness all rolled together. It isn't a skill because it is basically baked in your biological meaning it becomes secondary instinct. Again, many Amateur Wrestling athletes confess that they didn't really use techniques at all and mostly just "BULLIED" their opponents in wrestling matches by using their superior elite physical conditioning. So your argument that wrestling especially highschool wrestling is a good skill against bullies is ridiculous because wrestlers especially highschool wrestlers themselves are the "BULLIES"(I don't mean they are assholes and dicks. I mean they are superior in physical conditioning and tend to be bigger against people they beat which is exactly the same physical tactic that allows bullies(jerks and assholes) to dominate their victims. Also, pun intended.). This is because bullies(assholes) tend to be bigger and physically stronger(not skilled) than their victims. Bullies(jerks) choose their victims which why victims tend to be physically weaker than their bullies. So yeah, in conclusion, Wrestling especially American Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling is a sport built to serve bullies and not a sport to fight against them nor counter them. Wrestlers are not David nor the 300 Spartans. Wrestlers are Goliath and the ancient 300,000 Persians. If an Amateur Wrestling Athlete especially a US Highschool male Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling athlete were to truly stand up against their own bullies, the wrestlers would most often get their asses kicked and humiliated often times because if they are the targets of the bullies, that means the bullies correctly assessed that these wrestler targets of theirs are physically inferior to them in physical strength and physical fitness. So the wrestlers' only advantages(physical strength and physical fitness) gets nullified because the bullies already beat them at those advantages. Martial arts are different. They are more than physical conditioning. They are skillsets and fight IQ. For example, BJJ is invented so that little guys can beat bigger guys. Also, the fact that Amateur-Wrestling is 100% physical conditioning while Martial Arts(BJJ, Karate, etc.) are skillsets explains why there are far fewer people who are wrestlers than people who do martial arts(BJJ, Karate, Muay-Thai, etc.)? Skillsets and techniques can be learned by anyone given enough hardwork while the physical conditioning of Amateur Wrestling athletes are enabled by 65% genetics. It's why most NFL players are genetic freaks because US highschool male gridiron football coaches are brutal and unforgiving when it comes to choosing their athletes. These coaches choose based on who have the most natural biological innate talents and the most natural biological innate aggression and anyone who doesn't fit those criterias gets removed from the football teams no matter how hardworking. Of course, 96% of US highschool wrestlers in the USA are first US highschool male gridiron footballers and are wrestlers second because 96% of US highschool male wrestling team members only got into highschool wrestling and only do wrestling because the US highschool male gridiron football coaches told them that US highschool wrestling enhances their US highschool male gridiron football skills. Nobody in the USA really likes Amateur Wrestling especially Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling including even US Collegiate Wrestling purely for its sake let alone watch it purely for its sake. Pro Boxing, pro MMA, NFL games, and NHL games are popular to watch in the USA while nobody watches Amateur Wrestling including US Collegiate Wrestling. Even the series show Cobra Kai, which is about Karate, bullied kids, and fighter nerds, is far more popular to watch in the USA than Amateur Wrestling is. Nobody in the USA gives a damn about Amateur Wrestling whether the wrestlers are Freestyle, Folkstyle, or Modern-Greco-Roman. In some cases, Amateur Wrestling athletes such as Freestyle and Modern-Greco-Roman especially Folkstyle even get mocked and ignored by many people in the USA by making fun of their weightcutting and calling the sport as "gay huggers". It's harsh and unfair but it's probably due to Amateur Wrestling such as Folkstyle, Freestyle, and Modern-Greco-Roman often being extremely emphasizing on their groundfighting which does look visually unappealing and slow. I didn't say that the only Amateur Wrestling athletes who win in MMA are elite of the elites. I said that there is no such thing as non-elites in Amateur Wrestling practically speaking in substance because if you take a look at Amateur Wrestling's hellish physical conditioning, extreme constant training, and extremely large number of matches, those things make the word "average" in an average Amateur Wrestling athletes as basically meaningless. The only real average members of Amateur Wrestling are those who are not from highschools, colleges, academic educational institutions, nor from state-funded Olympic teams but are from hobbyist independent gyms(Yes, they do exist. Use Google Maps to find them.) whose members often get their asses kicked in pro MMA by martial artists(Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, etc.) as evidenced by the fact that no wrestler from those hobbyist wrestling gyms became a champion in pro MMA while martial arts backgrounds such as Kyokushin, BJJ, Judo, etc. do. Honestly, it's not really a solid base in MMA at all because it has no skillsets. It's mostly 97% physical conditioning. I never said that Amateur-Wrestling doesn't help in MMA. It does but again, it isn't a skill. It's genetic biology and physical strength at best. If you are gonna call Amateur-Wrestling as a base in MMA, you might as well call construction work as a base in MMA because construction work is one of the backgrounds that helped the pro MMA fighter Merab Dvalishvili in becoming an elite MMA fighter. Many people often think that Amateur-Wrestling athletes have this skillset called Amateur Wrestling which helps them in pro MMA. No, those Amateur-Wrestling athletes aren't pure wrestlers anymore. Many of them are also already elite BJJ specialists which is what truly allows them to win many of their fights if they are not going to win by using striking.

Have you ever noticed that the only Amateur Wrestling athletes succeeding in MMA are those from US highschools and national Olympic state-funded organizations while hobbyists from independent non-state-funded clubs don't? It's because compared to US highschool wrestling institutions, Collegiate Wrestling college departments, and national Olympic state-funded Amateur Wrestling organizations, independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling clubs don't do HIIT(High Intensity Interval Training) AKA "THE GRIND". So what shows here is that if your base is Amateur Wrestling and you want to succeed in MMA, you have to be one of the most elite of the most elite of your kind. Speaking of that, there is no such thing as an average normal wrestler in US public highschool wrestling teams nor in national Olympic state-funded Amateur Wrestling organizations because all wrestlers in those places are the most elite of the most elite monsters. Normal average Amateur Wrestling athletes are bad at MMA fighting. Other hobbist bases such as Muay-Thai, BJJ, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin, Karate, Taekwondo, Judoka, etc. will kick their asses in MMA. This is because again, Amateur Wrestling has no techniques nor thinking and frankly speaking, other obscure unknown foreign exotic wrestling styles such as Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil, Korean Ssireum, Japanese Sumo, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Igorot Bultong, African Senegalese Laamb styles, etc. will beat are much more developed technique wise and will beat the fuck out of the most elite wrestlers of independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling athletes in no-rules real street fights. Again, Amateur Wrestling is just no different from some typical village folk wrestling sport practiced and created by civilian villagers and not legendary military warriors. Amateur wrestling has no techniques nor thinking nor strategy. So yeah, Amateur Wrestling is a sport but not a martial art nor a real combat system.

Have you ever noticed that the only Amateur Wrestling athletes succeeding in MMA are those from US highschools and national Olympic state-funded organizations while hobbyists from independent non-state-funded clubs don't? It's because compared to US highschool wrestling institutions, Collegiate Wrestling college departments, and national Olympic state-funded Amateur Wrestling organizations, independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling clubs don't do HIIT(High Intensity Interval Training) AKA "THE GRIND". So what shows here is that if your base is Amateur Wrestling and you want to succeed in MMA, you have to be one of the most elite of the most elite of your kind. Speaking of that, there is no such thing as an average normal wrestler in US public highschool wrestling teams nor in national Olympic state-funded Amateur Wrestling organizations because all wrestlers in those places are the most elite of the most elite monsters. Normal average Amateur Wrestling athletes are bad at MMA fighting. Other hobbist bases such as Muay-Thai, BJJ, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kyokushin, Karate, Taekwondo, Judoka, etc. will kick their asses in MMA. This is because again, Amateur Wrestling has no techniques nor thinking and frankly speaking, other obscure unknown foreign exotic wrestling styles such as Mongolian Bohk, Turkish Oil, Korean Ssireum, Japanese Sumo, Filipino Dumog, Filipino Buno, Igorot Bultong, African Senegalese Laamb styles, etc. will beat are much more developed technique wise and will beat the fuck out of the most elite wrestlers of independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling athletes in no-rules real street fights. Again, Amateur Wrestling is just no different from some typical village folk wrestling sport practiced and created by civilian villagers and not legendary military warriors. Amateur wrestling has no techniques nor thinking nor strategy. So yeah, Amateur Wrestling is a sport but not a martial art nor a real combat system.

Your Amateur Wrestling coaches doesn't teach you how to avoid fights nor de-escalate? So you are telling me that your Amateur Wrestling institution encourages you to get into street fights and real fights? Are you and your coaches idiots? Street fights are not like the movies where good guys always win. In street fights, people don't fight fair and use dirty tactics, weapons, guns, and numbers because people who engage in street fights and real fights are not normal people but are sociopaths and mentally ill psychos who are all willing to go all out including them trying to put in you in comas, broken bones, or worse, DEATH. Because no normal ethical sane person will get into street fights and real fights. And if that happens, no amount of Amateur Wrestling training and conditioning will make you beat those odds against those psycho freaks. Chances are you end up in a hospital. You're an idiot. No NCAA All-American Division I Collegiate Wrestling champion will singlehandedly beat 5 angry overly aggressive untrained crazed fully-grown adult male street fighters. Must be why I getting more in-person reports of highschool wrestlers, collegiate wrestlers, and olympic Amateur Wrestling athletes getting killed in street fights but not so much when it comes to martial artists such as Muay-Thai, Karate, BJJ, Judokas, Kickboxers, Taekwondo, etc. because the latters de-escalate.

Have you ever noticed that out of all of the martial arts of pro MMA, amateur wrestlers from independent non-state-funded clubs are the only ones who do not become champions in pro MMA while other fighters that start as hobbyists such as Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, Boxing, BJJ, Judo, Kickboxing, Karate, etc. become champions in pro MMA? The only Amateur Wrestling athletes you see thriving in pro MMA are those from US highschools or Olympic state-funded national organizations while those from non-state-funded independent hobbyist clubs(No shit. They exist.) don't. Want to know why? It's because independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling clubs do not do the extreme physical conditioning of amateur wrestlers from US highschools and state-funded Olympic national organizations. Independent hobbyist non-state-funded Amateur Wrestling clubs do not have the resources to do the infamous Amateur Wrestling physical conditioning called HIIT(High Intensity Interval Training) or what is colloquially called in US highschool Scholastic Folkstyle wrestling as "THE GRIND". This is because again, Amateur wrestling is not a real martial art. It has no techniques, skills, thinking, strategies, nor fight IQ in it and the only thing that separates them from untrained people is "THE GRIND". No, Amateur wrestlers can fight but I am only saying that the only real thing that sets them apart from normal untrained civilians are their physical conditioning. But when it comes to techniques, skills, and fight IQ, they are really no different from your average untrained normal fool that you typically see everyday walking any random boring ass street of any normal non-special city of the USA. If you think about Amateur Wrestling's double leg takedown, it looks very normal, natural, and instinctual and not very martial artsy. Even normal untrained people often do double leg takedowns in street fights if they are aggressive and angry enough. As for suplexes, that's not a techniques but more like a product of physical conditioning and being used to doing it over and over and over again the same way football touchdowns, soccer bicycle kicks, gymnasts backflips, and basketball dynamic dribbling aren't techniques but are moves powered by physical conditioning. Anyone from any background can do suplexes on a mat if their bodies are fully developed enough. Like I said again, out of all of the martial arts of pro MMA, amateur wrestlers from independent non-state-funded clubs are the only ones who do not become champions in pro MMA while other fighters that start as hobbyists such as Kyokushin, Muay-Thai, Boxing, BJJ, Judo, Kickboxing, Karate, etc. become champions in pro MMA. It's weird. The only Amateur Wrestling athletes succeeding in pro MMA are those from US highschools and state-funded Olympic national organizations.

To be honest, the only real grappling art that is commonly used in all of MMA is BJJ. That's it. MMA has 4 aspects which is striking, wrestling(not specifically referring to amateur wrestling but any wrestling style[such as Mongolian Bohk, Japanese Judo, etc.] in general), and submissions. The most commonly used wrestling style in all of MMA is just instinctual untrained biological innate human wrestling because Amateur Wrestling(Folkstyle, Freestyle, and Modern-Greco-Roman) is just that... INNATE INSTINCTUAL BIOLOGICAL HUMAN INSTINCT. This is why again, BJJ is the only real grappling art in all of MMA. As for Judo and Combat Sambo, they are not really used in their full forms in pro MMA(including by the likes of Khabib "The Eagle" Nurmagomedov and Fedor Emelianenko) and more like some of their parts are used for support. But I have a feeling that Combat Sambo's main wrestling system is just Amateur Wrestling because Catch Wrestling is one of the 5 parent arts of Combat Sambo along with Judo, Jujutsu, Boxing, and Kurash. The British sport of Catch Wrestling is where Freestyle Wrestling and Scholastic Folkstyle Wrestling came from. The striking parts of MMA are covered by Muay-Thai, Boxing, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Karate, and Kickboxing. The submission parts of MMA is covered by BJJ. The wrestling part of MMA is entirely covered by Amateur Wrestling which is basically just instinctual human movement and you can enhance that by doing the HIIT(High Intensity Interval Training) of Amateur Wrestling. So yeah, BJJ is the only real grappling art of MMA.

Sorry about this but this is a revised version of my original post because people found it to unpleasant to read. Anyways, this is for martial artists(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Judo, Kyokushin, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Kickboxing, Kempo, Eskrima, etc.) or those interested in martial arts(Muay-Thai, BJJ, Kyokushin, Judo, Taekwondo, Shotokan, Boxing, Eskrima, Lethwei, Kajukenbo, etc.). If you guys want to try Amateur Wrestling especially US highschool wrestling because you think that Amateur-Wrestling(Greco-Roman, Freestyle, and US Folkstyle) are martial arts or combat science, YOU ARE ABSOLUTE FUCKING WRONG! Yes, many people often say that amateur wrestling makes great fighters but fighters and martial artists ARE NOT THE SAME! A fighter is simply just someone who fights while a martial artist is a combat artist that can be a person that avoids real fights. For example, an untrained street fighter is not a martial artist but he is clearly a fighter because fighting is what he does. Here's a thing about amateur wrestling. They ESPECIALLY US HIGHSCHOOL FOLKSTYLE WRESTLING do not have techniques or even fight IQ. They absolutely have zero when it comes to that. Okay, you are most likely confused right now and are probably saying: “But Firu56Go, why do people think that amateur wrestling is special and a great way to be a fighter if they have no techniques or fight IQ involved?” Well, Amateur Wrestling is not special because they “have techniques or fight IQ”. They are seen as special and a great background for fighters because of… Wait for it… THE GRIND!!! THE PHYSICAL CONDITIONING!! ALL OF IT!! PLUS THE WEIGHTCUTTING!!! That's exactly what sets amateur wrestling apart from martial arts(I didn't put “other” between “from” and “martial arts” because that would imply that amateur wrestling is a martial art, a combat science, or involves fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategy.). Not techniques, fight IQ, thinking, tactics, or strategies. The truth is that the training in Greco-Roman Wrestling, Freestyle Wrestling, and US Scholastic Wrestling are all 96% physical conditioning plus the weightcutting. And absolutely no learning techniques or experimenting and creating new techniques.