blueandgold

Are we only considering national championships for dynasties or can we make exceptions for conference championships as well? How much are we considering individual success? The reason I ask is because of teams like Minnesota or Cornell who have extended success with individuals, have beaten top teams, and in Minnesota’s case have done things like won the National Duals or beat Penn State H2H in 2014 when they won their fourth straight NCAA title.

Per Merriam-Webster, when used in the context of discussing sports, a dynasty is a “sports franchise which has a prolonged run of successful seasons.” So, with that in mind, across all time, besides the obvious Iowa, Oklahoma State, and Penn State, which programs do you consider to be wrestling dynasties?

This is a very American take. “The height of wrestling is winning NCAA titles” has to be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve ever heard. Globally, Greco is the most popular style and freestyle is right there with it. How could you say Cejudo has not reached the heights he should’ve when said NCAA champions are trying to reach what he did?!?!?!

This discussion was happening then too. Maybe not so much opting out, but all names you listed have advocated for the United States to strictly focus on freestyle for years. I’m merely presenting a nearly impossible scenario where I think the NCAA would adopt freestyle and it would only be because those at the top are affected from a revenue standpoint via a large number of top recruits choosing to focus on freestyle. Beyond that, it would never happen for any other reason.

Refer back to my original post where I said this would never happen unless there were some scenario that created enough chaos that required attention and later change. This is me pointing out said scenario. Thank you for stating the obvious.

Because they have a school of sport and no folkstyle. Next question, babe.

Okay, I get what you’re saying, but what I’m saying is that if the Cejudo/Pico route becomes a trend, then there’s trouble. Of course, one or two people won’t shift anything, but if a good portion of top recruits year after year begin to do such, that’s when there’s a problem. Say, it’s 2-3 the first year, 4-8 the next, 10-15 after that, and then 20-25, and so on. Relating back to my original post, it would create chaos at the top because it’s not like you would be missing out on one guy, you would be missing out on several and when it becomes a trend, change has to take place so programs don’t lose out.

You can’t minimize elites down to being “random.” Elites are elites and elites equal revenue. Sure the Folkstyle wrestling will remain good, nobody is denying that, but the final say is revenue. If Iowa, Penn State, Ohio State, and Oklahoma State start missing out on revenue because people would rather see a group of 17/18-year-old kids go up against some of the stiffest competition in the world on a frequent basis, then something will change. Money is a force to be reckoned with and when kids start signing deals with brands while pursuing their Olympic dreams, it’ll cause the NCAA to change and might even bring some dead programs back.

I’m not suggesting that at all. I never said that. You’re suggesting that and I’m not even sure where you pulled that from. You said it was a fairly new sport meaning that women just started competing in freestyle as it was recognized by the Olympics starting in 2004, meaning that in 20 years, women in the U.S. have been developing in a sport the men had a head start on and in the most recent Olympic Games outperformed the men. If anything, that goes against your point. Even if it is new to women, the sport of freestyle wrestling remains the same. Same rules, same techniques, etc. If there were a difference, Helen Maroulis and Victoria Anthony wouldn’t host clinics that also teach boys and men freestyle techniques. Most boys wrestle freestyle from a young age and through high school in the spring and summer, the women have just found a way to cater to it at the collegiate level and it incentivizes girls to focus on it more than the boys who remain in Folkstyle as men in college.

He might be the best example. Arizona and Colorado state champion who immediately went to freestyle after high school, beat an NCAA Champion in his senior debut at 18 years old and went on to beat several D1 standouts before he won the gold in Beijing 2008. Imagine he went the traditional route, redshirted in 2007, competed as a starter somewhere from 2008-11, and then transitioned to freestyle. He may have never reached the height he did and looking at Beat the Streets 2012, Cejudo in that Olympic year was a far cry from Cejudo in 2008.

Freestyle wrestling is freestyle wrestling. The men don’t wrestle the women and vice versa. Not sure I’m following what you mean.

Yes. They both wrestle folkstyle in high school and freestyle at the international level. One has a greater emphasis on freestyle, though, and the results show. Folkstyle being an institution in American wrestling at this point and longtime practitioners and fans of it being resistant to change doesn’t negate the fact that women are developing in freestyle much better because it’s been their sole focus for the most part at every level despite the four month high school season. The best folkstyle wrestlers have also advocated for the NCAA to transition to freestyle including Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, and Yianni Diakomihalis to make the same kind of development.

I think this would be because when you look at how training freestyle consistently has paid off for the U.S. women, the men could/would be more eager to follow suit. Amit Elor is an Olympic champion at 20 years old and won a senior world championship at 18 just a few months after graduating high school. While she could wrestle at the collegiate level for an NCAA program, there would be no benefit. She attends a public community college in her home state and trains for her sport full time and it seems to be doing her pretty well. If the larger goal is freestyle or Greco wrestling at the international level, I could see some guys bypass college altogether as four years spent doing a different style with potential of injury among other things doesn’t seem ideal.

I’m realizing it won’t happen ever unless there were a perfect storm of events that directly affected the top in a way that created chaos within programs and revenue streams. In my opinion, it would take a number of Aaron Pico-like situations where top recruits are actively skipping collegiate competition to focus on freestyle or a situation similar to Amit Elor where athletes attend non-wrestling schools to receive education but still train freestyle full time. For example, say Bo Bassett or Jax Forrest were to opt out of collegiate competition and attend a school like UCLA or USC for higher learning but to also train in freestyle in the LA-area full-time with Valentin Kalika. Enough of those events would cause a seismic shift to the wrestling landscape that would require attention from premier programs and ultimately change from within.

I’m sure @Wrestleknownothing has the statistics and information handy, but I’m curious as to who fans, experts, and veterans alike would crown the equivalent to the 2001 Miami Hurricanes football team in that they dominated everyone, had a record 38 NFL draft picks, and a combined total of 43 trips to the Pro Bowl. So, in wrestling, because there is no professional league, what team throughout history dominated their competition and had the most Olympic and World Team members and medals?