MidwestMan

I can't see Rocky doing a red shirt. Did you not watch his last matches at nats. He is either wrestling hurt or lost some drive/HEW. He was like 2 different wrestlers at nats.

I don't question that at all. I do know the tougher path can end in injuries. William's at Okie State is a good example. Does Schultz win the title at Hvy in the Big 12? Tell me Figs doesn't get better challenges at the Big 12 at 125. Is that funny stuff? I think the Big 12 benefits from Arizona State joining the conference, but their path to nats will get tougher next year. Bank that.

This has been on my mind also. That bump of Whiting for Hawks was a head scratcher and I wondered if he was hurt till I heard Smith's explanation. Hawks was one riding time point from being an AA, so I guess he was right in his thinking. There is still a "log jam" with Hawks, Whiting, and Heriman. If Kegan stays at 165 and one of those guys can drop to 174, that might help. Sinclair is coming in to the mix and what is R. Elam doing? Staying at 197 or bumping to hvy, or ? Just a crystal ball at this point.

Like I said, timing and competition in the weight class is a big part of the equation.

Really, you think? This was about "everyone one else getting an opportunity to brag." We know which conference currently rules. Just hoping the Big 12 will inch closure with Arizona State coming into the conference next year. Baby steps!

This is absolutely true and I like that your pointing this out.

I absolutely agree with this post. I live in Missouri but I'd drive to Ames or Iowa City for that dual. That win over the Hawkeyes is coming, as is the train that Dresser is building in Ames. It's a dual I fear when they come to Columbia to dual the Tigers. Big props.

Catchy handle considering your referring to Steiber. Only way Steiber I'd mentioned as a 3 is if his dad votes.

Boy, I can't wait! How will Braxton Amos fit in that plan?

You might want to weigh in the competition that the wrestlers faced to get to the top 4 times. Some paths might have been easier than others. If MM would have won this year in a weight class that included 3 world champs/2 former nat champs and finished an undefeated career, he would have been at the top of this list. Oh well, "shoulda, woulda, coulda!"

How many of those AAs were from A state cause they get to come to the Big 12 next year and grind it through that tournament before getting to nats. Don't think the path makes a difference?

Nothing wrong with being critical of the performance, but I wouldn't expect any major changes. The athletic department seems happy with the status quo, and Mizzou is not a destination school for wrestling (or any other sport). I don't see them spending the money necessary to change that. I just hope Smith can find a way to light a fire back under the program. Exactly Crotaius. There is no pressure to win wrestling at Mizzou, and to be honest, with us being in the SEC for everything else, I'm just happy every year wrestling is not dropped. MU is not going to spend money to improve the program. Smith has done the unimaginable by building the program to where it is and "tickling" the loyal wrestling fans of the state. I just want my cake and eat it too, thus the criticism and wishful posts. Just an old retired guy with too much time to bitch.

Leave his shoes on the mat after next season or not even return? I'd be shocked if he didn't return, but I certainly don't have any inside info. It certainly seems like he was dealing with something injury-wise based on his limited schedule and lackluster early season performance, but he was rounding back into form for the postseason. Given that, I don't see his finish as a disappointment. He split with a tough Cardenas, and he was never beating Brooks or Sloan even at his peak. I hope he doesn't finish his career with a whimper the way Mauller and Mocco did. As I stated, the question popped up while Rocky was getting teched by Brooks, then fizzled in the next rounds. There was comments from people that are pretty reliable sources, that Big Elam was ready for the season/wrestling to be over and Rocky was also dealing with HEW, some of which could be injury related. We all know what the grind of wrestling does to the head and body by the end if the season, and that could be part of the Elam psyche, and comments. Was very happy the way Zach completed his collegiate career as he continued to move up as an AA and get a great win against Schultz. His senior year was obviously a success. We all want to see Rocky back, and he will be in the hunt for a title at 197 if his head is right and he is healthy. I had been suggest to others for a long time that he could go up if weight is an issue. I just don't want to see him finish like Mocco and Mueller, just being loyal and putting in the time. If the fire is not in the belly, be proud of your legacy as a 4 time AA, and get on with life.

Our group had multiple big screen tvs so had matcast and regular broadcast. At one point, the commentary was getting so bad, we turned down the volume. DC was bouncing off the walls and we just couldn't go with the "shot gun" approach with the crew talking over eack other and some of the dumb comments. Our group consisted of ex college wrestlers and coaches so we didn't need to be educated about wrestling as we watched. It just seemed like a clown show this year compared to some of the past years.

Wowser!!! Thanks for sharing. That kind if money will buy a lot of headgear.

I was absolutely pulling for Carr, but when he went into total defensive mode, backing and using the edge, I was expecting him to get dinged for stalling. Great kid/wrestler and happy he got to end his career this way. Tough one for MM but he has plenty to look forward to. Still hard to imagine 3 world champs in the same weight class. In most years, all 3 would be nat champs.

BIGTENFANBOY and Hwt1, I see both your points in your arguments. The perspective is over 2 different ranges of time. B10FB, I will say, I like what Dresser is doing with Iowa State. As a Mizzou fan, I knew the Big 12 bar was getting raised when he took that job. A team takes the personality of it's coaches and the Iowa State coaches are pretty fiery and gritty. I also have a ton of respect for Schwab and Northern Iowa. I'm sharing my perspective on the other points that have been raised on this topic concerning NIL, funding, fan support/tradition. Just my 2 cents, and for more perspective, let's include the state of Oklahoma. All 3 have a rich tradition and history in wrestling. Pennsylvania, probably is the richest state talent wise, year to year. Throw in the surrounding large population centers, private wrestling factories (private schools-Blair, Seminary, etc...) Penn State should have been a power house waaay before Cale. Cale had the name recognition and because of his success, is a wrestler magnet, and he surrounded himself with great assistants. Winning takes care of itself and everyone loves to be associated with/follow a winner. (I live in Missouri and want to gag myself when I see someone living in Missouri wearing a Jayhawk BB shirt.) Winning opens the checkbooks of those rich farmers in Iowa, the oil and gas billionaires in Oklahoma, and from the masses of people, both blue collar and white, grinding on with their lives looking for something that will give them some joy and the possessive association to say, "my, ours, we!" They are all in and proud as hell when their winning, and pissed off and spewing vinegar on forums when their team goes to nats and lay a big ass egg, not reaching expectations. All dynasties eventually end. Money can buy coaches and athletes. What does loyalty cost? Imagine a scenario like a Ben Askren coming to Missouri and a Kegan Otoole hanging around as an asst. You see how that could create a new Caesar?

I was at a watch party with about 20 old wrestlers and coaches and this question was brought up. Many in the crowd know the Elams from dad's high school and college days, as well as following the boys through their youth and HS days. Word in the room was both boys were a bit toasty about wrestling, and Rocky has dealt with naggy injury. Would I be surprised if Rocky left his shoes on the mat? Not a bit.

North Carolina, I sure hope your right, although I'm not buying that the "sickness" was our only problem. Guess we'll have to revisit this post a year from now.

I know my comments are critical of the current Mizzou wrestling edition, but you don't get people commenting about the state of a program unless that program has reached the point of relevance. There was a day when Tiger wrestling fans would have been ecstatic with an 11th place finish at nationals. We can thank Coach Smith and his staffs for getting Tiger wrestling to the point where we follow the team religiously, drive to Columbia for home duals and new attendance records, and are a bit spoiled with our climb to what I would call the "2nd highest tier" of the D1 hierarchy. We are not in the class of the traditional top tier blue bloods yet, but knocking on the door, or at least were knocking on the door. With success and the accolades that come with it, also comes the expectations and ire that can be that double edged sword when the bottom falls out and fans left wondering, "what the hell happened?" Now looking to the "24/25" edition, we'll see how this coaching staff meets the challenge.

Mocco was one of Carr's only loses and looked like the "real deal" his frosh season. I can remember being so excited when I saw that Hart had committed to the Tigers from St. Ed's. How did that all end? Jacques never reached his potential, and much like Mauller, had the physical tools but never adjusted their style. Eierman left the Tigers because he felt he couldn't reach his potential at Mizzou. I don't know if that was technically, or culture related. How much credit can Smith and crew take for KO success when we know where the product started? Great coaches keep raising the bar so their athletes will keep reaching. I look at Iowa State and Northern Iowa and their kids just seem a bit tougher, but then look at their coaching staffs and you see why. I'd love to see this grit with the Tigers.

Now I guess we will see if Edmonds solves his Dr Jekle, Mr Hyde approach to takedowns. He just needs to get in shape and keep coming Mesenbrink style. I so wanted to see him, and Hawks AA, but then we know "the rest of the story!"

That there was some funny stuff.

If KO could/would stay at 165, I wonder if Whiting or Hawks could make the cut down to 174. That would solve the problem of the log jam they are in and allow to use both. I was thinking the same about Rocky, but he'd really need to "pack it on", like Bastida. Sinclair will be arriving and could slot somewhere. All this won't matter unless this team can get more gritty. Sure seems like when it got to "nut cutting time", Mizzou got "neutered!" I've never seen so many Tigers get teched, or seem to have quit mentally, before the season was over. Ok, there was some illness on the team towards the end. Performance was starting to slide before that. Could blame it on HEW. In the end, who is responsible for the psyche of the team? The conditioning? The development and also the ability to adjust a wrestlers deficiency through drilling, etc... Smith has shown he can be a good recruiter. But, how many Tigers come to Mizzou as "great" wrestlers, and leave as just "good" wrestlers? Hell, Cornell is national runner up. Hats off to their coaching staff. Tell me what is keeping Mizzou from being a Cornell. I've already typed enough but I could go on, believe me. Personally, I'm ready for chapter 2.

Unfortunately, this is true.