Critical Need for Infrastructure Investment: A Non-Partisan Imperative

[Viratas]

Ok, all we do here is fight solely based on partisan divides; rarely do we have any meaningful discussion about ways to improve our country in general. So, I put some thought into some things I think we should be talking about and some things I believe people could agree on, of course, if they can take off their partisan glasses for a few minutes. This (these) are a few things I have concerns about.

Let's focus on what truly matters to our wallets and our safety. The biggest underlying problem in our country right now is simple: our infrastructure is outdated and failing. While our political debates get bogged down in endless noise, the physical systems that keep our economy moving are struggling. We see it every day in traffic: our bridges and roads are in terrible shape, and we are desperately lacking in high-capacity roadways and new expansion projects needed to handle today's commercial and commuter demands. Our rail system is lagging, and air travel is plagued by an outdated air traffic control system.

This is more than just an inconvenience; it's a huge economic anchor. The cost of delays, unnecessary repairs, and inefficient logistics is ultimately paid by all of us. Even more critical is the vulnerability of our utilities. We need to be honest about the security gaps at major power stations and recognize that cybersecurity for our core technology infrastructure is a top-tier national security issue. A failure in the power grid or a major hack of our digital networks would be catastrophic. Addressing these risks, both physical and digital, is a basic responsibility of government.

The path forward requires a shift in focus to common sense. We need policy that creates growth, supports commerce, and provides basic safety, and that means prioritizing infrastructure. Federal government needs to step up with reliable, sustained funding for national systems and set modern safety standards for things like our power grid and cyber defense. State and local governments must be accountable for efficient maintenance and strategically planning new, high-capacity road and transit projects where growth demands it.

This isn't about scoring political points; it's about smart, long-term investment. We must demand that our leaders stop chasing fleeting partisan issues and instead focus on the concrete, foundational projects that will make this country safer and more prosperous for everyone.

[mspart]

We have infrastructure here in WA that is woefully behind on maintenance.   DOT has concentrated on mass transit to the detriment of keeping the roads and bridges safe.   Bridges here (and a bridge does not have to be huge) are in bad repair and one has even  had to be closed.   The people that live there have to take a 45 min detour to get to the next town.  

https://komonews.com/news/local/wsdot-responds-to-claims-it-ignored-years-of-repairs-to-fairfax-bridge-leading-to-closure

WASHINGTON STATE — It's been six months since the Fairfax Bridge along State Route 165 closed after being deemed too unsafe by WSDOT -- now a local elected leader is calling on the department to answer claims that they knowingly put off much-needed maintenance for the bridge for two decades, leading to its closure.

For over a century, the Fairfax Bridge, just south of the town of Wilkeson in Pierce County, has been a conduit for millions of tourists and hikers, looking to access Mt. Rainier National Park, as well as other campsites and trails in the region.

Wilkeson Town Councilmember Jayme Peloli says that she obtained state inspection records for the bridge dating back to 2004. She claims that WSDOT knew about deteriorating conditions throughout the bridge, but put off taking any action that could have saved it from closing.

“For nearly 20 years, inspectors documented corrosion, section loss, imminent need for rehabilitation, yet preservation, and funding were repeatedly deferred,” Peloli told KOMO News.

WSDOT told KOMO News that they are woefully underfunded, and that they have a slew of bridges and infrastructure statewide that are in similar need of repairs, but they simply don't have the funding to address them all based on the funding from the State Transportation Budget.

I guess every state has similar problems.  But the fact that WSDOT says they are underfunded is a crock.   Taxes were just raised 9 Billion this year.   We pay through the nose here and they can't keep this stuff running well.   I remember MN had high taxes but the roads were clear of snow immediately after a snow.   Parks had ice rinks and there were neighborhood parks everywhere.   You could see taxes working for you.   Here in WA, nope.   Same in HI.   You just don't see  taxes working for you.   

mspart

[Offthemat]

We should stop wasting every dollar spent on wind and solar energy.  Florida is one of the worst for this.  Energy prices in the future are not only going to skyrocket, but the energy provided won’t be sufficient. 

[mspart]

We have been warned of rolling brown out just for this exactly.  Got my generator and it does the trick.  

mspart

[Viratas]

18 hours ago, Offthemat said:

We should stop wasting every dollar spent on wind and solar energy.  Florida is one of the worst for this.  Energy prices in the future are not only going to skyrocket, but the energy provided won’t be sufficient. 

I agree

[TylerDurden]

For reference are the vote tallies on the 2021-22 $1.2T infrastructure bill: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2021370 | https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1171/vote_117_1_00314.htm#state

You will be hard pressed to take away partisan actions from this discussion because the votes on these pieces of legislation are what they are. 

That said, I'm not sure there's a more corrupt process in this country than road construction/infrastructure contracts, in general. Inflated prices, backroom deals and general sh*t housing. They don't build things to last, they build them to get the next contract. 

To wit, the infrastructure bill passed during the Clinton administration had tons of pork, only to be dwarfed by the pork (more than 3x) in the Bush bill. Obama's infrastructure bill was part of the economic stimulus in response to the Great Recession - which worked for its purpose, but didn't provide enough funding for the traditional infrastructure maintenance. Frankly, the spending on infrastructure in these three bills wasn't nearly enough to update/keep up. The US essentially went from 1956 (Highway Act) to 1998 without a major infrastructure bill. 

Trump didn't pass one and Biden signed the sort of funding bill you're talking about. 

I completely agree with the primary point you're making though. The infrastructure in our country is going to be our downfall, because there won't be quick fixes if the power grid gets (more) compromised. 

 

 

 

[TylerDurden]

18 hours ago, Offthemat said:

We should stop wasting every dollar spent on wind and solar energy.  Florida is one of the worst for this.  Energy prices in the future are not only going to skyrocket, but the energy provided won’t be sufficient. 

The effectiveness of energy sources are dependent on region, there's no one-size fits all solution. The more varied your sources, the better off we'll be. 

Solar in Indiana won't work as well as solar in Colorado. When I lived in Colorado, all of my monthly home energy needs were covered by my solar panels. In fact, I produced far more than I needed and was able to "sell" it back to the energy company. I say "sell" because the rates you're paid are stupidly low, but still contributed to a yearly gain. The break-even timeline was about 15 years. The panels also increase my home value, so I came out ahead when I sold it. But hell, the solar farm at the Indianapolis airport - which is placed in otherwise unusable land - produces enough to power ~3,600 homes for an entire year.

Residential solar economics struggle because you don't have the same level of governmental investment and industry protections like you've had with other energy sources as they built their industries. It costs far too much in places that don't have 300 days of sunshine and it still costs a lot in places where you do. 

But to say it wouldn't be sufficient at scale simply isn't correct in all applications, but it is region dependent. I would argue these are the things a government wanting to be completely energy self-sufficient should be investing in. 

[Viratas]

39 minutes ago, TylerDurden said:

For reference are the vote tallies on the 2021-22 $1.2T infrastructure bill: https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2021370 | https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1171/vote_117_1_00314.htm#state

You will be hard pressed to take away partisan actions from this discussion because the votes on these pieces of legislation are what they are. 

That said, I'm not sure there's a more corrupt process in this country than road construction/infrastructure contracts, in general. Inflated prices, backroom deals and general sh*t housing. They don't build things to last, they build them to get the next contract. 

To wit, the infrastructure bill passed during the Clinton administration had tons of pork, only to be dwarfed by the pork (more than 3x) in the Bush bill. Obama's infrastructure bill was part of the economic stimulus in response to the Great Recession - which worked for its purpose, but didn't provide enough funding for the traditional infrastructure maintenance. Frankly, the spending on infrastructure in these three bills wasn't nearly enough to update/keep up. The US essentially went from 1956 (Highway Act) to 1998 without a major infrastructure bill. 

Trump didn't pass one and Biden signed the sort of funding bill you're talking about. 

I completely agree with the primary point you're making though. The infrastructure in our country is going to be our downfall, because there won't be quick fixes if the power grid gets (more) compromised. 

 

 

 

Thanks, like I said, if any issue (for us here) can be non-partisan, this is one. It is my biggest concern, to be honest.

[JimmySpeaks]

Cyber Security is an immense concern.  And success is heavily reliant on the public sector.  We all better hope we stay on top of this. 

[mspart]

Data centers require a lot of energy and reliably  accessible energy.   They are now resorting to putting in their own power plants.   

Renewable can be backup source in my opinion.   With the exception of dam power, most renewable power is not something you can count on 100% of the time.   There is a drawback to any kind of energy production.   But if the drawback is too much, then it is not worth it in my opinion.   

We went to Grand Coulee dam years ago and they said that originally, it was there to provide water to the farmers.   But in order to do that they had to produce energy to power the pumps.   The pipes are enormous.   And then they saw they had enough water flowing to power other things as well.   So now it powers Washington, Oregon, Idaho, western Montana, and parts of California, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and Canada.    So it waters the farms and powers the extended northwest.   

Big dam.   Fun to visit. 

mspart

[Offthemat]

11 hours ago, TylerDurden said:

The effectiveness of energy sources are dependent on region, there's no one-size fits all solution. The more varied your sources, the better off we'll be. 

Solar in Indiana won't work as well as solar in Colorado. When I lived in Colorado, all of my monthly home energy needs were covered by my solar panels. In fact, I produced far more than I needed and was able to "sell" it back to the energy company. I say "sell" because the rates you're paid are stupidly low, but still contributed to a yearly gain. The break-even timeline was about 15 years. The panels also increase my home value, so I came out ahead when I sold it. But hell, the solar farm at the Indianapolis airport - which is placed in otherwise unusable land - produces enough to power ~3,600 homes for an entire year.

Residential solar economics struggle because you don't have the same level of governmental investment and industry protections like you've had with other energy sources as they built their industries. It costs far too much in places that don't have 300 days of sunshine and it still costs a lot in places where you do. 

But to say it wouldn't be sufficient at scale simply isn't correct in all applications, but it is region dependent. I would argue these are the things a government wanting to be completely energy self-sufficient should be investing in. 

Florida is about as regionally optimal as you’ll find in the U.S. and solar isn’t working for them.  Texas is about as regionally optimal for wind, but it’s not working there, either.   The money may have worked out for you, but that was due to what you call subsidies to the energy company, and the fact that the person who paid more for your house because it had solar panels on it is ignorant.  You didn’t power your house more than a few daylight hours with your solar panels, if at all.  It’s more likely that your house ran on the grid while the panels sent electricity to them.  California solar panels make more electricity than they can use during the day, but batteries only last about four hours, so by evening they’re buying electricity from Arizona and a couple other states to keep things going.  
 

Solar and wind simply don’t work most of the day, no matter where they are.  The AI data centers won’t even entertain the idea of using them.  The power companies are guaranteed a larger profit from building and using them or they wouldn’t be doing it.  It’s not so much our tax dollars going to them, it comes in the form of higher utility bills.  

[TylerDurden]

NM

Edited November 21, 2025 by TylerDurden

[TylerDurden]

17 hours ago, Offthemat said:

Florida is about as regionally optimal as you’ll find in the U.S. and solar isn’t working for them.  Texas is about as regionally optimal for wind, but it’s not working there, either.   The money may have worked out for you, but that was due to what you call subsidies to the energy company, and the fact that the person who paid more for your house because it had solar panels on it is ignorant.  You didn’t power your house more than a few daylight hours with your solar panels, if at all.  It’s more likely that your house ran on the grid while the panels sent electricity to them.  California solar panels make more electricity than they can use during the day, but batteries only last about four hours, so by evening they’re buying electricity from Arizona and a couple other states to keep things going.  
 

Solar and wind simply don’t work most of the day, no matter where they are.  The AI data centers won’t even entertain the idea of using them.  The power companies are guaranteed a larger profit from building and using them or they wouldn’t be doing it.  It’s not so much our tax dollars going to them, it comes in the form of higher utility bills.  

With all due respect, you have no idea what the market values solar panels where my house was and claiming me to be ignorant on the very real dollars to came into my account is asinine. 

You seem to know an awful lot of other people's situation, but yet don't have anything to support it. You're out here arguing about the storage mechanism for the power created by my panels, yet you don't really know how it was set up - but you'd rather tell me how wrong I am about the amount of power my panels produced. 

But let's assume you're right (you aren't). Even if the electric companies are collecting and distributing power because of limited battery capacity - the electric company isn't responsible for producing that power. They'd simply be a conduit. That's a good thing. 

You're also just making stuff up about California and solar. All it takes is a quick internet search. They produce less than 1/3 of the consumption: https://seia.org/state-solar-policy/california-solar/

Be specific when you say it isn't working for Florida or Texas - what isn't working? 

[mspart]

I bought a house when we lived in HI.   I had solar panel for hot water installed.   I think it was a good deal.   It even had a little solar electric panel to drive the pump.   It was HOT water and cost nothing after the original investment.   

I did that because MN was rasing their electric rates like crazy and I wanted to not be hit so hard.   It was like surprise charges within a month.   It was a long time ago so I don't remember the particulars but I remember being quite upset with the prices in MN.   

In general terms, if something needs to be subsidized to make sense, it doesn't make sense.  

mspart

Edited November 21, 2025 by mspart

[Offthemat]

1 hour ago, TylerDurden said:

With all due respect, you have no idea what the market values solar panels where my house was and claiming me to be ignorant on the very real dollars to came into my account is asinine. 

You seem to know an awful lot of other people's situation, but yet don't have anything to support it. You're out here arguing about the storage mechanism for the power created by my panels, yet you don't really know how it was set up - but you'd rather tell me how wrong I am about the amount of power my panels produced. 

But let's assume you're right (you aren't). Even if the electric companies are collecting and distributing power because of limited battery capacity - the electric company isn't responsible for producing that power. They'd simply be a conduit. That's a good thing. 

You're also just making stuff up about California and solar. All it takes is a quick internet search. They produce less than 1/3 of the consumption: https://seia.org/state-solar-policy/california-solar/

Be specific when you say it isn't working for Florida or Texas - what isn't working? 

It’s not a secret that solar panels only produce electricity during a few peak hours on sunny days, making it extremely unlikely that your system actually powered your house, and more.  
 

This has a bit of information and charts that explain what’s going on in California.  Florida and Texas have similar issues.  The power companies have been guaranteed a 10.5% profit no matter how much they spend, or whether the electricity gets used or not.  
 

https://kclapp.substack.com/p/california-electricity-imports