LJB

Just now, bnwtwg said:

He beat the following in his bracket:

2022 senior worlds 9th place Darian Cruz

2020ne OTT 2nd place Vito Arujau. You may recall that Vito beat Fix at OTT.

2020ne third place Nate Tomasello

Also in that bracket was 2022 4th place Zane Richards and Nick Suriano - depending who you ask, he has also found success including winning a UWW ranking tourney (2021 Deglane) that Gilman attended and did not win.

That is not exactly a chump change bracket.

did not say it was a chump bracket...

said gilman and fix were not in it...

those would be our world and olympic reps at that weight for how many years?

they didn't show up to that tourney because it meant nothing...

lee had to show up to qualify for trials...

seriously people...

just the tiniest little bit of nuance...

i have a college degree...

never wrestled a day in my life...

1 minute ago, Ponzi said:

"just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path..."

It pretty much does mean that. Right or wrong, it's the only viable path in this country. Maybe the powers that be could or should create a different path. But until they do, the decision to wrestle in college is the right one for anyone who aims for international success.

 

it is 100% not the only viable path...

it is just the most common and the one that is expected by those that want to use our athletes to prop up a scummy organization...

doing something for the sole reason that it has always been done like that is such small minded thinking...

cejudo

pico

all proved there are different paths...

my youngest quit folk after his freshmen year because it is awful... he was a state finalist at his walk around as a freshmen...

he is now a national champ and an age level world team member... getting ready to move into the OTC so he has the best chance to actually win medals...

there are options out there you just have to be willing to go against the grain at times...

Just now, PortaJohn said:

What I'm getting from @LJB is he thinks Lee is wasting precious time chasing a 4th title that to him is somewhat meaningless in the grand scheme of things.  Correct me if I'm wrong LJB.

i will do you one further...

he should have never bothered with his senior High School year...

he should have been focused on nothing but world and olympic medals from the moment he truly believed he could do it...

there are plenty of wrestlers that can fit into a black adult extra small singlet...

spencer lee is already 24 years old...

with two bad wheels...

wasting time...

and at the weight most dependent on quickness...

half a step at 57 is not even making the team...

i sincerely hope he makes a team and wins a gold medal... as many as can... it would legitimately make me happy...

but...

100% vs 100%...

i still pick gilman and that was 2 years ago... that gap has just widening as we speak because gilman is actually getting better and spencer still gets tired...

again...

if i am wrong it will not make me unhappy one tiny little bit...

what most see as lee or iowa hate (such an average take) is more disgust with how this country wants their wrestlers to be worse internationally than better...

and for what?

100% honest...

i just do not get too worked up about doping...

the supplements i buy every month is out of reach for 99% of the world...

not just financially, but, just that level of nutrition...

how much different is that from any of the numerous things athletes have popped for...

like ibuprofen...

4 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

I am not sure that everything you say about statistical correlation is correct. But I will accept it. In any event, there certainly is a strong color statistical correlation between NCAA success and worlds senior level of success. That is almost every US wrestler (not all, there are exceptions) who won a world senior medal also won an NCAA medal.

that is only because this country is too jingoistic...

if our best athletes spent those years actually learning how to wrestle instead of beating themselves up... destroying their bodies... learning how  to run to the edge for safety, back straight out of bounds, and lay on someone to earn 3-2 victory by a ride time... do you think they would be better prepared for long term international success?

look at the average age of world medalists... 

it isn't 33... it is much closer to 23... when our best are wasting away trying to perfect a cross body ride...

just because that is the common path does not mean it is the best path...

anyone who chooses to do something different faces ridicule from the entire country...

it is just super small minded thinking...

not really...

does not make it less scummy...

again...

i praise odin daily that US athletes do not have to worry about being held responsible for their governments actions...

Just now, Jamie_Taco said:

It's Iowa hate, plain and simple. It's the same thing with downplaying Spencer Lee's cadet and junior world titles, as well as his 2019 US Open championship.

BuT fIx AnD gIlMaN wErEn'T iN tHe BrAcKeT

I'm sure LJB is also one of those people who believes Spencer wasn't the reason TG left IC.

ugh...

just for the record for those painfully average posters and their painfully average takes...

i like iowa...

i like the brands...

i like spencer lee...

i like tough wrestling... i am a greco guy, so, poo style tough wrestling is a bit of snickering point for me, but, whatever...

one of my kids wrestled for a cadet bronze at cadet worlds in 2021... he was 15...

he lost...

he was bummed...

so was i...

but it was cadets...

it legitimately does not matter... there is no statistical correlation between cadet success and senior success...

that is a fact...

i was way more bummed when my other kid got the paws put on him at junior worlds last year... so was he

because that is when it starts to actually show that you are on the right path...

again, spencer lee's junior gold came at 50kg... that is a child... there is no statistical correlation between 50kg juniors and senior success... 

i believe when this was a topic at the time it actually happened we found one 50kg in the history of ever that actually won a senior medal... it could have been two... whatever

senior nationals is a step...

that is it...

and if your main domestic challenges do not even bother to show up, then , it is just a big piece of wood at the end of it...

for most the reality of being good enough at anything to say "national champ" is something so far out of reach it does seem like a much bigger deal...

there are levels to this shit...

3 minutes ago, bnwtwg said:

Spencer Lee is such a bum...

Call LBJ when he wins a real tournament at the senior level, like 2019 Senior Nationals...

No respect until then, because a preteen mean-mugged another preteen how many years ago...

i get you consider anything even less than absolute compliments to mean someone thinks your fav is bum...

i also get you think senior nationals is a big deal...

when my 19 year old made the senior national finals last year i was pretty pumped...

but...

2019 senior nationals with no fix or gilman...

not sure i would be waving that banner with as much fervor...

private citizen???

autonomy???

sorry, brother... 

private citizens can not be trusted to handle their own business...

if that starts happening they might start thinking for themselves...

nope... 

we can not allow that to even be whispered about in dimly lit corners...

16 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said:

This man is really trying to state "he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league" as fact LOL.

Show us on the doll where Spencer Lee touch you..

would it be too much to ask for a more original internet insult?

53 minutes ago, Jamie_Taco said:

Minus the Cinnabon, this might be the front runner for dumbest post of 2023 so far. Great work!

Stick around… 

I will say way “dumber” things than that…

particularly when it all was factually correct…

lee was 100lbs when he was 10… then a myth got built while he physically dominated kids just passing through his weight…

He is not a technical wrestler… he is a brute and impressive in that regard…

there is no correlation between international cadet success and international senior success…

there is no correlation between junior success at 50kg and senior success…

the weight class does not even exist because of how irrelevant it is nowadays…

He will without a doubt go down as one of the best poo style wrestlers of all time and rightfully so…

But…

small pond…

The suggestion he is an all time great is truly laughable…

could he have been?

quite possibly had he chosen a bigger path…

he didn’t…

and that is on him…

again...

trying to gather the troops with some really clever stuff...

i don't hate it...

i would like it much better if there was some actual humor in it, but, they can't all be winners...

7 hours ago, GreatWhiteNorth said:

LJB, upon hearing he was a silly boy, had one of his eyes roll out of his head onto his cracked iPhone screen. 

Good news is that he's got a 2nd working eye, so he's off to the Genius Bar to get his screen repaired.

Drive safe, LJB, drive safe.

it was a valiant attempt at trying to be clever...

good for you...

you all forget Lee's first time at cadets...

got rolled up...

then he beat up a bunch of little kids at 50kg...

then got chased down from 55 to go beat up some more little kids...

it is a laughable assertion that Lee is among the all time greats... 

technically, Lee has never separated himself as a wrestler... 

but he can definitely beat up some runts and mids in the c league...

shameful...

5 minutes ago, Cherkov said:

If Spencer dominates everyone domestically at FS, it's not like there's an international big bad at 57 kg. 

For sure…

Abakarov is a punk…

I just cracked the screen on my phone rolling my eyes so hard…

30 minutes ago, Ponzi said:

I guess Lee is level-headed enough so it should not be a problem, but isn't the common coaching wisdom to downplay your guy's ability at least a little so he doesn't get coky or complacent?

for average athletes i would agree...

for the absolute best on the planet you want them to know they are the destroyer of worlds before they even step on that mat... 

they should be pissed that someone else even thinks they have a chance...

false bravado or not, if you don't have that amount of psychosis then just stick to small pond of folk...

17 minutes ago, Interviewed_at_Weehawken said:

Facebook birthdate? Do you think he logs into meta daily?  Do you think facebook or wiki are accurate? I'm only 99 in mine!

He was several years too old when he won juniors.  Yes, that doesn't matter when you win men's, but still very scummy.

To Karelin's credit, he wants to end Russia's age group cheating.

BTW Yianni is on record that Vito told him that the guy he wrestled in cadet finals was like 20.  Supposedly Vito was training at the guys club in Russia and found this out.  This was very common.  

not to split hairs, but...

sad went from winning "cadets" to winning seniors...

i am just going to shut the door on the way out of this thread...

Just now, PortaJohn said:

I agree.  Also, I think this will change in our lifetime but for now I can't think of one American wrestler that would crack the top 5 of "greatest Russian Freestyle wrestlers of All Time".  10 to 15 years from now I'm confident that will change

there is nothing i disagree with in that post...

2 minutes ago, MPhillips said:

I don't believe that camp is shrinking either.

i remember when lee was mean mugging my then 12 year old kid at trials years ago in vegas...

i texted the wife (at the time) what the hell?

then i realized the kid was wearing a team big hoodie...

lee was a force at one time...

the NCAA and our predatory system of chewing up our best athletes and spitting them out when we are done with them ruined what might have been...

again...

totally on him and his decisions... if that is what he wanted then i support HIS  decisions...

1 minute ago, PortaJohn said:

Yes, I missed that.  Only thing I know on the issue is that Russia put his birthdate as May of 1996 which contradicts what he stated on his own page as October of 1994

personally, i do not care about the BC shenanigans because i know how much a club in russia/hungary/(insert your favorite country here) can benefit from an age level world medal...

the overall benefit far outweighs any perceived slight from a country that does not support its athletes...