NYupstate

Will someone explain what the "ballgrab" was? I am new to wrestling and am not familiar with that past part of Freestyle.

On another recent thread that revolves around weigh-in timing, weight management, and cutting I got to wondering if anyone knows of GLP-1s being used for weight management? I thought it better to put on its own thread rather than muddy the other discussion with talk of drugs. It seems like turning appetite down a few notches would make losing weight easier (duh!). But maybe there are side-effects to those drugs that make them undesirable as adjuncts to weight loss when physical performance is the higher level goal (as opposed to fat loss for weight/health reasons being the driving factor). My big picture take is that the fewer pharmacological agents in all sports, not just wrestling, the better. I don't love the idea of ozempic being used to drop pounds for sport, but I have less of a charge around that than I do, say, PEDs.

Re: scale shopping and limited number of referees - the one tournament I volunteered to work a table at this past season filled the gym full, but there would have been space for a "weigh station" at one end of the mats. The referees walked back and forth from the individual mat tables to the official tabulation table every match with slips of paper for recording all the scoring. I think in that situation it would have worked smoothly to have a scale or two next to the officials' table. The two competitors could have met the ref there, weighed-in, and then walked to the mat together. But that is just one tournament in one state. Maybe there are other places such a set-up would be a nightmare? One venue that hosted a tournament had a single mat down the hall in a smaller gym space away from the main scene. Running weigh-ins the way I propose here would have made the matches down the hall take longer as the ref would spend time hiking back and forth from mat to weigh station. It would not have risen to the level of "nightmare" but it would add gaps in the action out on that isolated mat. Or in more computerized score keeping scenarios refs just stay on the same mat without going to the officials' table very often?

I agree it would be bad to reduce the number of weight classes, but I don't see that it necessarily follows that classes would have to be cut to make matside weigh-in feasible.

Can you elaborate on point #3 for me? I'm not sure I got the point you're making there. Are you saying bigger gaps between classes encourages competing at walk-around weight?

Thanks for taking the time - I see how I could have phrased that more elegantly. I was not trying to say somebody in a brace should not wrestle that day. I said, "that is a good question" at the end of my comment, attempting to imply that I hadn't thought of the particular issue and it needed consideration, not that I had all the answers. I can see how it could be read the way you did take it. As other people have said already, this is a logistical hurdle that could be addressed. Maybe when the teams show up anyone who needs a brace or wrap gets put on a list that allows them to "jump the line" a few slots and weigh in when on double deck or however many positions needed to get into their gear.

Perhaps because of the impression it would help maintain muscle mass and cause weight loss from other tissues? I am not saying it does that, just some people might beleive it to be so.

Looks like you nailed it. This is the 3rd comment on the thread.

Thanks for bringing my communication failing to my attention. Can you point me to the comment(s) that made you think I was looking down my nose at others? I read back through the thread and I see other people dropping epithets, but I didn't see anywhere I did. I tried to be clear I want to learn and that when I shared my perspective that it was my opinion, not fact. I was trying to come across as open-minded, not that I didn't have an opinion. I was not the one who immediately turned the thread to the topic of cutting. I just went with the conversational flow. As the health/longevity expert Peter Attia says on his podcast, "strong convictions, loosely held" (he's changed his mind a few times on various practices, based on evidence or lack thereof). Without conviction I won't act, but a tight hold on a conviction makes it very hard or impossible to change even in the face of compelling evidence.

Haha! Knowledgeable sock puppet account is a little more flattering than arrogant know-it-all newbie. You didn't offer it, but I'll continue to take the position of, "concerned parent who thinks wrestling is great and would like rules that make it the best sport it can be". Clearly there are strong opinions around what those rules should be. I do have opinions because of what I've seen already, and the story after story I've heard from people about their experiences. I've only been around wrestling for a short time and I've heard several stories that make me queasy and/or angry. I think the worst of the worst cutting could be reduced with mat side weigh-ins and I wanted to hear reasons for why this is not standard practice in matches. Elevated risk of injury seems to be the big one. I am glad 1032004 brought to my attention that there would be some people who'd take the chance and compete while dehydrated, thus putting themselves at higher risk.

I'm at a loss over this accusation. I will admit to having spent a lot (too much?) of time immersing myself in wrestling fandom the last 6 months or so. My wife is getting sick of every dinner table conversation turning that direction, but it is a way to draw out talk with an otherwise not-so-talkative teen. I want to support my kid in his interests, so I've watched some youtube videos with him and have him show me moves he's learning. I found this forum on a link from the Reddit page. I posted here because it seems like the overall level of knowledge about the sport is higher on this forum than on Reddit, not that there aren't a few knowledgeable people over there too. My son is currently obsessed with getting better at wrestling so I thought it would be interesting to listen to one of the best talk about it as we drove to a youth tournament. It doesn't take very long on Youtube to figure out who some of the greats are. Though if you want to plumb the depths of my ignorance just ask me about international wrestlers who didn't do college in the US. I can't keep any of their names in my head. I looked around on the bigger podcasts and found a few interviews. Burroughs on Rogan was one of the them. But I guess it doesn't really matter that much whether you believe me. This is the internet after all.

This makes me think it is unfortunate that the term, "weight cutting" encompasses such a wide array of techniques that can be used to reduce weight. I don't have an issue with a long term weight management program where one leans out a bit and goes down a few pounds, after one is finished growing. That sounds eminently sensible for a combat sport where strength:weight is a critical aspect of success. I don't think the "black eye" is any worse for wrestling than for other sports with weight classes. I think wrestling has it less bad than MMA and boxing. Other types of cutting not so much - Semi-starvation - one guy on the team this year wrestled 116 when he could make it. A few days after the season ended he was 134. That is big % of body weight to be attempting to shed in order to compete. Dehydration - risky for a host of reasons. Beyond a pound or two I am surprised this is as common as it is. The loss of performance when trying to exert oneself at a high level while dehydrated is significant. Full hydration recovery can take 24 hours.

Huh, interesting. I would have thought the detrimental performance effects of dehydrated competing would be a deterrent to cutting those last few pounds. You're absolutely right that the risk of injury (concussion particularly) is a lot higher when one is dehydrated.

Huh, you think matside weigh in could contribute to deaths? That seems counter-intuitive to me. Can you elaborate why that would be the case? Is it that you think guys would try to compete while very dehydrated?

A few weeks ago we listened to Jordan Burroughs on Rogan (an episode from years back). He joke/not joked about having an eating disorder. I thought, "huh, this is not really what I want my son to associate with excellent wrestling".

Thank you for continuing to flesh out your thoughts on this. It is helping me clarify my thinking. Granting that I can not know the particular insides of another person's head/motives, I believe we can both be right about the "admiration" we hear in talk about tough cuts. You seem to hear more positive aspects while I have a more negative valence on it. I can think of other difficult activities which require incredible dedication, technical skill, and grit that I hope my son would not engage in. Free soloing a big cliff for example. Obviously cutting some weight is not directly analogous to taking that kind of risk, but I hope in highlights the fact that I can be impressed by the grit and ability required to achieve the goal while simultaneously believing the undertaking is misguided. Would a matside weigh-in prevent a wrestler from exercising the traits you laud in order to make weight? A wrestler who wants to compete lighter than walk-around weight, being match ready would still require the kind of dedication and attention to detail whether the scale is 2 hrs or 2 minutes before the match, no?

I am glad to hear you didn't suffer and that you don't advocate it. The admiration I hear in the way some guys talk about, "that was a really tough cut", is a turn-off to me around the sport. That is what I was pointing at and clearly I didn't do a good enough job of communicating it and did not mean to impugn you personally. I don't think I claimed to have it all figured out, which is why the OP I created was framed as a question. I am sure there is a lot I don't know. If there are compelling reasons to have a time lag between weigh-in and the start of match I want to hear them so I can quiet the discomfort I have around this issue.

Personally, I would have weigh-in happen when on deck or double deck. Wrestler would wear shoes and singlet. Then put on braces or other wraps. Or maybe if one needs a heavy brace that is an indicator to not wrestle that day... That is a good question though.

This take reminds me a lot about the way doctors I know talk about the way residency "used to be". There was a culture issue that caused the old guard to cling to their belief that 120 or 130 work weeks toughened them up and prepared them for the practice of medicine - nevermind the errors, and oversights fatigued interns inevitably put into place. The direct harm to patients came second to the preservation of medical culture. There seems to be a mindset some people hold that goes along the lines of, "I had to suffer through, therefore you should too if you want to get where I am." In many specialties there are now limits on the number of hours interns are allowed to work in a given week. I would like to see the sport of wrestling ask, "what would be weigh-in procedure for the participants health?" And then create incentives to make that the most likely outcome. I think the bigger the gap between weigh-in and the start of a match the greater the incentive to attempt a deep cut.

Yeah, that's my sense too, but it's not based on enough experience to be confident in my observations. My wife and I made it clear to our son that we would much prefer he gain into a higher weight class rather than cut to find a spot. He will be a freshman next year and depending on how big he gets between now and the start of the season he may or may not have to compete for a starting slot (it's a small school with a small team). I'd prefer he be second string and grow as his body wants to grow. His uncle cut during high school and believes it stunted his growth. He never got any taller after he started cutting his sophomore year. I am not saying cutting will stunt every person's growth. I do believe it probably stunts some people, especially if it is done during a time the body "wants" to be in a growth spurt. And those times are easy to identify in the rearview mirror, nigh on impossible to predict with any precision.

That's what I thought would happen. The guys who don't cut to make weight would then kick the pants off someone who dropped 6 or 8, especially later in the day of a tournament. I think it would eliminate a lot of the unhealthy levels of cutting. There would be no way to be strong if one is walking around dehydrated trying to stay light.

I am a new wrestling fan (I didn't wrestle when I was young). My 14 yr old son got into it this year and drew my interest along. There are many things I find to appreciate about the sport - overall fitness, mental toughness/resiliance, work ethic development, etc - you guys know the list. But as a newbie I cannot wrap my mind around the rationale for weigh-ins hours before a match. Why not put a scale mat-side and weigh-in right there in front of the crowd? Is it just tradition that keeps it as it is? Please enlighten me.

NY ran the girls' and boys' tournaments on different days. Girls had one day, boys went the next two days to get through all their brackets.