Non GOAT best ever

[GrandOlm]

1 hour ago, Fadzaev2 said:

Well, Andiev (that's the Soslan you are referring to) has 2 olympic gold, So does Bruce, and keep in mind, we didn't go to Moscow, Andiev has 4 world gold, and Bruce has 3 world gold, Andiev has one world silver, and Bruce has 3 world silver, as well as 3 world bronze.....oh I almost forgot.....throw in an Olympic silver and bronze for Bruce as well giving him world record 13 world and Olympic Medals.......you can't put Andiev (Soslan) a "tier" above Bruce!!!!  I'm old enough, I watched Andiev....he's in my "film" library (World Cups) in Toledo...he was really good, but NOT a tier above Bruce.  Medved was in a different era ......watched him too.....but I won't argue him.....12 world and Olympic medals ....10 gold.  Fadz

Bruce's 84 Olympic Gold is not a world level medal. I don't think it merits being mentioned over even his performances in forgotten tournaments.  I guess you could try to say that about 1980, but the favorite at that weight was not an American.  A wrestling tournament with no Soviets is akin to a modern ping pong tourney without Chinese players. Bruce would have been a big underdog to Salman (whose name I butchered above). 

Soslan was the best heavyweight of the 70s. He dominated that decade winning 5 wold level medals in a row and swept most of the soviet national championships (where he had a winning h2h over the man that Bruce could not beat). He was clearly the best at his weight for an extended period of time, Bruce was never. He always took a loss to someone or failed to defend his title. I think sustained dominance (plus the degree of dominance, thought you have to first go on unbeaten streaks for that to really matter) trump longevity and a high floor (constantly getting at least bronze). So I think Bruce is not on Soslan's level. 

I don't think he's even clearly the best of the group I put him in. You could make a strong case that Salman separated himself from Bruce (given their h2h results). 

Edited May 18 by GrandOlm

[Fadzaev2]

11 hours ago, GrandOlm said:

Bruce's 84 Olympic Gold is not a world level medal. I don't think it merits being mentioned over even his performances in forgotten tournaments.  I guess you could try to say that about 1980, but the favorite at that weight was not an American.  A wrestling tournament with no Soviets is akin to a modern ping pong tourney without Chinese players. Bruce would have been a big underdog to Salman (whose name I butchered above). 

Soslan was the best heavyweight of the 70s. He dominated that decade winning 5 wold level medals in a row and swept most of the soviet national championships (where he had a winning h2h over the man that Bruce could not beat). He was clearly the best at his weight for an extended period of time, Bruce was never. He always took a loss to someone or failed to defend his title. I think sustained dominance (plus the degree of dominance, thought you have to first go on unbeaten streaks for that to really matter) trump longevity and a high floor (constantly getting at least bronze). So I think Bruce is not on Soslan's level. 

I don't think he's even clearly the best of the group I put him in. You could make a strong case that Salman separated himself from Bruce (given their h2h results). 

We can agree to disagree here, but did their careers even overlap, and Bruce only one NCAA title, and was just coming into his own at the end of Salman Hashimikov's career.  Plus he never even competed in an Olympic Games.  While I'm at it, another great one that I don't believe has been mentioned in this whole conversation is Makharbek Khadartzev!!!  

 

Edited May 18 by Fadzaev2