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Agreed. Jason Welch was great.

I disagree with every single point. Using Bo Nickal has invalidated your entire argument. Freestyle is the best. I've said my piece.

This entire conversation is dumb, because folkstyle will never change. If we switched to freestyle, our national team would be more competitive. I wish people cared about that. No, there's no conspiracy. The reason we do folkstyle is because it's tradition/an American thing. Which I said in that quote you highlighted. People do have a financial incentive to keep folkstyle. Granby school of wrestling and Ben Askren's top camps back in the day. That's probably super minor though. When I said football was 10x more dangerous, I was using hyperbole. Football is more dangerous. Plenty of statistics and studies to back this up. You say freestyle is more dangerous than folk. It very well might be. This isn't a fact. And you may be wrong. I haven't seen any statistics on this. Just because one dude can't defend a Fireman's doesn't make it more dangerous. I was just saying I don't see why the danger level would hold anyone back, when the most popular HS sport is way more dangerous.

I'm not sure freestyle wrestling is any more dangerous than folkstyle. Football is 10x more dangerous. Way more kids are playing football. Why would switching from folkstyle to freestyle mean less kids would go out for it? Outside of rare edge cases.

I just want us to have a better chance to succeed at the highest level of the sport. Which is the Olympics. I don't think folkstyle's popularity has anything to do with how fun it is. Folkstyle is tradition. Ono wants to get paid.

This thread is all hypotheticals anyway. But that's fair.

Pico beat a senior level world champ at 18. He also beat Frank Molinaro, Jayson Ness, Jordan Oliver, and Reece Humphrey after those guys had graduated. I'm sure he would've done fine in college.

Someone on Reddit told me he signed an NIL deal with Nike in HS, which is why he couldn't wrestle in college.

I think we do folkstyle because of tradition. I don't think it has anything to do with more wrestlers and fans preferring folkstyle. If college and high school wrestling magically became freestyle tomorrow, no one is going to quit wrestling. Or not sign up to wrestle. Folkstyle and freestyle are pretty similar.

Folkstyle is junk. It should have been killed long ago. If we only did freestyle, our national team would be more competitive. I'm tired of us losing to the Soviet countries. Now we can't even beat Japan. I don't think folkstyle will ever go away because it's an American thing, and too many coaches/camps have a financial incentive to keep top/bottom wrestling.

I could see this

Very cool

Real US Dollars

My top 3: Yianni Diakomihalis: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/yianni-diakomihalis/ Cael Sanderson: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/cael-sanderson/ Jordan Oliver: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/jordan-oliver/

I'm seeing some incredible spreadsheets in this thread. Why are these not online? Wrestling fans would love to see these.

I thought for sure there would have been another Cael AA I had missed.

When I was watching the NCAA's I saw Cael Happel All-American, and it made me think. How many Caels are out there wrestling? And is Cael Sanderson weirded out that so many people name their kids after him? These are the best Caels I could find: 1. Cael Sanderson The OG Cael. Olympic Champ. World Silver. 4x NCAA Champ, 159-0 in college. Cael Sanderson's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/cael-sanderson/ 2. Cael Nasdeo Currently wrestles at PSU. PA State Champ. Multiple time PIAA place winner. Cael Nasdeo's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/cael-nasdeo/ 3. Cael Happel 3x NCAA Qualifier. NCAA All-American - 5th. 4. Cael Valencia Currently wrestles at ASU. 2x NCAA Qualifier. 5. Cael Hughes Currently wrestles at OSU. 4x OK State Champ. Fargo Champ. Walsh Ironman Champ. Any other great wrestlers named Cael not on this list?

Very interesting. What site is this from?

Now that NCAAs are over, who are the best to never win a title? Some guys off the top of my head: 1. Daton Fix World Silver. Pan American Champ. US Open Champ. 4x NCAA Finalist. Daton Fix's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/daton-fix/ 2. Stevan Micic World Champ. World Bronze. Olympian. 3x NCAA All-American - 4th, 2nd, 3rd. Stevan Micic's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/stevan-micic/ 3. Thomas Gilman Olympic Bronze. World Champ. 2x World Silver. 3x NCAA All-American - 4th, 2nd, 3rd. Thomas Gilman's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/thomas-gilman/ HMs: Tyler Caldwell, Montell Marion, Sebastian Rivera

Impressive. Just Googled him. Wasn't familiar with the Henry Wittenberg lore

That's absolutely insane. Didn't know anyone wrestled at a high level that started wrestling in college.

I just came across an interesting Twitter thread about the best guys that started wrestling in high school. Can't believe some of these guys got so good so fast. 1. Tamyra Mensah Stock She started wrestling sophomore year. According to Wikipedia, she almost quit wrestling after her dad died in a car accident driving back from one of her high school matches. 1x Olympic Champ. 2x World Champ. 2x World Bronze. Tamyra Mensah Stock's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/tamyra-mensah-stock/ 2. Tervel Dlagnev Started wrestling sophomore year, supposedly as a way to lose weight. 1x Olympic Bronze. 2x World Bronze. Tervel Dlagnev's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/tervel-dlagnev/ 3. Lee Kemp Started wrestling in 9th grade at Chardon High School. 3x World Champ. 1x World Bronze. Lee Kemp's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/leroy-kemp/ 4. Zach Rey Started wrestling as a freshman at Hopatcong High School. 3x D1 NCAA All-American. 1x D1 NCAA Champ. World Team Member. Pan American Champ. Zach Rey's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/zach-rey/ 5. Chris Campbell He apparently started wrestling when the basketball coach told him "You suck." He only wrestled one year of high school at the varsity level. Won Olympic Bronze at 37 years old. 1x World Champ. 1x World Silver. Chris Campbell's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/chris-campbell/ 6. Mark Schultz Started wrestling as a junior in high school and went 4-6. 1x Olympic Champ. 2x World Champ. Mark Schultz's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/mark-schultz/ 7. Mo Lawal Started wrestling as a sophomore, and won state in TX as a junior. Pan American Champ. 3x US Open Champ. Mo Lawal's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/mo-lawal/ 8. Andre Metzger Started wrestling as a freshman at Cedar Springs High School. 1x World Silver. 2x World Bronze. Andre Metzger's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/andre-metzger/ 9. Stephen Neal Started wrestling in 9th grade. 1x World Champ. 3x Super Bowl Champ with the Patriots, despite never playing football in college. Stephen Neal's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/stephen-neal/ 10. Richard Perry He didn't start wrestling until junior year of high school. 2x US Open Finalist. 1x World Team Trials Finalist. Richard Perry's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/richard-perry/ Any other legendary wrestlers that started wrestling in high school? Or any other great guys that started wrestling as late as middle school?

Which high schooler will have the best career? 1. Marcus Blaze Ranked #1 P4P by Flo. 3x OH State Champ, bumping up a couple weight classes to go for his 4th title this weekend. Ironman Champ. U17 World Champ and U20 World Bronze. He beat NCAA finalist Matt Ramos at the Clarion Open. He's been insane on the senior circuit. 3rd at Olympic Team Trials and 2nd at World Team Trials with wins over Seth Gross, Daton Fix, Nahshon Garrett, Luke Lilledahl, and Nico Megaludis. Marcus Blaze's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/marcus-blaze/ 2. Jax Forrest Ranked #2 P4P by Flo. PA State Champ. 2x Super 32 Champ. Ironman Champ. 2x Fargo Champ. U17 World Silver. On the senior level he took 1st at Last Chance OTT, 4th at Olympic Team Trials, and 4th at World Team Trials. He teched Nathan Tomasello, and had a close 5-4 loss against Olympic Bronze medalist Thomas Gilman. Jax Forrest's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/jax-forrest/ 3. PJ Duke Ranked #3 P4P by Flo. 2x Super 32 Champ. Fargo Champ. Ironman Champ. 4x NY State Champ. U20 Pan Am Gold and U20 World Bronze. Probably most impressive is his senior level career. He only has 1 loss at the senior level. He won the Bill Farrell Memorial and took 3rd at the World Team Trials. He has wins over Bryce Andonian, Will Lewan, and Yahya Thomas. PJ Duke's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/pj-duke/ 4. Bo Bassett Ranked #4 P4P by Flo. PA State Champ. 3x Super 32 Champ. 3x Ironman Champ. 3x Powerade Champ. U17 World Gold. U20 World Bronze. Teched Anthony Ashnault at the Last Chance OTT. Bo Bassett's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/bo-bassett/ 5. LaDarion Lockett Ranked #5 P4P by Flo. 4x OK State Champ. 2x Super 32 Champ. Fargo Champ. 2x Ironman Champ. U17 World Gold. U20 World Silver. He hasn't wrestled a ton on the senior open level, but he teched Meyer Shapiro and had a close 6-4 loss against Tyler Berger at the Olympic Team Trials. LaDarion Lockett's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/ladarion-lockett/ 6. Anthony Knox Ranked #6 P4P by Flo. Looking to become the 5th wrestler in NJ history to win 4 state titles. 3x Super 32 Champ. Fargo Champ. 3x Beast of the East Champ. He hasn't wrestled many senior open level tournaments, but he teched Cael Nasdeo and had a close 7-7 criteria loss to Brandon Courtney at the Last Chance OTT. Anthony Knox's Record: https://wrestlingrecords.com/wrestler/anthony-knox/ Will another high schooler I didn't list have a better career than these guys? Seth Mendoza, Melvin Miller, Daniel Zepeda, Dreshaun Ross, etc.

2004 Cael was dangerous. I may be biased though