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Most losses to win a title


Wrestleknownothing

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Calling all historians.

A comment on FRL this morning got me thinking about who has won an NCAA title with the most career losses? And who had the most losses in the season they won a title?

I did a quick, very partial scan of wrestlingstats and the most I could find was J Jaggers with 32 career loses and J Jaggers with 9 loses in 2009 when he won as a senior.

Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge

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3 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

Calling all historians.

A comment on FRL this morning got me thinking about who has won an NCAA title with the most career losses? And who had the most losses in the season they won a title?

I did a quick, very partial scan of wrestlingstats and the most I could find was J Jaggers with 32 career loses and J Jaggers with 9 loses in 2009 when he won as a senior.

Betting Branch has the most for year won, no idea on the career.  

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11 minutes ago, 11986 said:

Kirk Trost from Michigan (heavyweight champ in '86) had 48 career losses.

 

edit - an intermat article has him with 48, nwhof has him with 43.

wrestlingstats has him at 43 also. that may be the same source as nwhof.

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/view_wrestlers.php?wrestler=3420

 

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Drowning in data, but thirsting for knowledge

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Jeff Walter 98-43

Mike Van Arsedale 109-43

Kirk Trost 136-43

Mark Ellis 91-39

Barry Weldon 104-37

Zach Roberson 106-35

Mark Reiland 105-34-3

Ernest Benion 113-34

Chris Bono 128-34

Michael Macchiavello 69-33

Carl Perry 87-33

Dean Morrison 106-32-3

Daryl Weber 104-32

Jake Jaggers 105-32

Aaron Holker 102-31

Rob Rohn 106-31

Jude Skove 131-31-3

Jason Kelber 123-30

Steve Bosak 131-30

Glen Pritzlaff 106-29

Dustin Fox 109-29

Eric Siebert 112-29

Jordan Leen 119-29

Frank Molinaro 121-29

Luke Becker 126-29

Keith Stearns 72-28-3

David Lee 145-28-8

Scott Collins 119-28-3

J.J. MNcGrew 88-28

Steve Marianetti 119-28

Jim Jordan 156-28-1

Byron Tucker 109-27

Kendall Cross 111-27-3

Mark Munoz 111-27

Chris Barnes 119-27

Mitch Clark 119-27

Jarrod King 125-27

Pete Bush 96-27-1

Tony Purler 99-26-1

Tony Purler 99-26

John Hughes 121-26-2

Dwight Gardner 122-26

John Lockhart 123-26

Brad Vering 124-26

Paul Keysaw 59-25-2

Jim Scherr 109-25-4

Teague Moore 113-25

Marty Kistler 118-25

Matt Gentry 138-25

Howard Harris 169-25

 

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1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

In my mind - most losses in the year someone won a title would be more significant than career losses due to the fact that career losses could be misleading if there is significant improvement over the course of the wrestler’s career.  

good point. if you look at fishbane's long list of guys with high career loss numbers, guessing almost all took the brunt of those early in career. Bono for example lost 27 his 1st two seasons and then only 7 his last two years. 

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16 minutes ago, PortaJohn said:

Is Mark Branch the only wrestler going into the tournament with a losing record to win a title? 

took a look at that season for Branch again. Not like he even came into the tourney on a relative hot streak, he lost his last two duals and took 3rd at Big 8, getting pinned in his loss there. 

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Mike Van Arsdale 109-43-2

Jeff Walter 98-43

Kirk Trost 136-43

Mark Ellis 91-39

Barry Weldon 104-37

Zach Roberson 106-35

Mark Reiland 105-34-3

Ernest Benion 113-34

Chris Bono 128-34

Michael Macchiavello 69-33

Carl Perry 87-33

Ben Cherrington 93-32

Dean Morrison 106-32-3

Daryl Weber 104-32

Jake Jaggers 105-32

Aaron Holker 102-31

Rob Rohn 106-31

Jude Skove 131-31-3

Jason Kelber 123-30

Steve Bosak 131-30

Glen Pritzlaff 106-29

Dustin Fox 109-29

Eric Siebert 112-29

Jordan Leen 119-29

Frank Molinaro 121-29

Luke Becker 126-29

Keith Stearns 72-28-3

David Lee 145-28-8

Scott Collins 119-28-3

J.J. MNcGrew 88-28

Steve Marianetti 119-28

Jim Jordan 156-28-1

Byron Tucker 109-27

Kendall Cross 111-27-3

Mark Munoz 111-27

Chris Barnes 119-27

Mitch Clark 119-27

Jarrod King 125-27

Pete Bush 96-27-1

Tony Purler 99-26-1

Tony Purler 99-26

John Hughes 121-26-2

Dwight Gardner 122-26

John Lockhart 123-26

Brad Vering 124-26

Gary Barton 46-25-1

Paul Keysaw 59-25-2

Jim Scherr 109-25-4

Teague Moore 113-25

Marty Kistler 118-25

Matt Gentry 138-25

Howard Harris 169-25

Additions/Corrections in bold.  Barton probably has the lowest career winning percentage of an NCAA champ.  Van Arsdale has the most career losses tied with Walter and Trost, but Van Arsdale had two ties as well setting himself apart.  For losses in a single title winning season the most is 9 with Branch, Jaggers, and Walter tied.  Branch easily has the lowest winning % for a single season.

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16 hours ago, fishbane said:

Single season NCAA championship year.  It starts to become common for <+6 losses

Mark Branch 13-9

He entered the NCAA tournament at 167 with an 8-9 record.

He opened the tournament with a 12-2 win over the No.2 seed Chad Renner, Oregon State.

He then beat unseeded Jim Brasco, Duquesne, 8-5.

His Q final win was against No.7 Chris Studer Boston University.

In his semi, he beat Jason Leonard, Oklahoma, the 6 seed, 9-2, who had beaten No.3, Ray Brinzer, Iowa. (Leonard had pinned Branch at the Big 8 tournament)

In the championship bout he eked out his title 4-2 over unseeded Laszlo Molnar, Cal State Fullerton. Molnar had beaten the No. 5, and No.4 seed Rick Hepp, Lehigh

93/94 losses to NCAA qualifiers/seeds

Parker, Oklahoma State DNQ

Fry, Missouri No. 1

Nelson, Nebraska DNQ

Mollica, Arizona State DNQ

Brinzer, Iowa No.3

Taylor, Minnesota DNQ

Nerem, Iowa DNQ

Leonard, Oklahoma No. 6 (Big 8 tournament)

(Per WrestlingStats, Branch entered the NCAA tournament with a 9-8. Since it is well documented it was actually 8-9, it can be presumed there is a typo "W" for one of his "L"s on his personal page)

 

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2 hours ago, RYou said:

(Per WrestlingStats, Branch entered the NCAA tournament with a 9-8. Since it is well documented it was actually 8-9, it can be presumed there is a typo "W" for one of his "L"s on his personal page)

 

It's interesting, if you look at his record for the year he is 13-9 on wrestling stats.  This includes 5 wins at NCAAs, so he should have been 8-9 going into NCAAs, which I think is correct. However, as you pointed out, if you add up the wins and losses from the individual matches he is 9-8.  Wrestlingstats is not consistent with the record it reports.  I think his record from Big 8s, where he finished 3rd, is correct, so the error must be in a regular season event.  Looking at the Lock Haven tournament he went 2-1 and lost to an OSU teammate, Parker.  This would be consistent with a 2nd or 3rd place finish, though it could also be that he defaulted out after losing in the championship bracket.  Since Parker is also a OSU wrestler, wrestling stats has his record available.  At the same tournament he went 4-2.  I suspect the error is in that Lock Haven tournament.  

Parker, the teammate that beat him in the Lock Haven tournament, had a wild season.  He met Branch in that tournament wrestling 167lbs and the week after wrestled in a dual against Oklahoma at 158.  He then wrestled 5 straight duals at 177 before wrestled against PSU at 167. Then it was back to 177 for 3 more duals, before jumping up again to 190 against Iowa.  He wrestled the final dual against OU at 190 and then bumped up again to 275 for Big 8s.  There he went 1-2, finishing 4th, and qualifying for NCAAs where he went 0-1.  For the year he was 8-14; 1-0 at 158, 4-3 at 167, 2-6 at 177, 0-2 at 190, and 1-3 at 275.  The year before he wrestled at 158 apart from the 1st tournament of the year where he wrestled 167.  In 1993, he was 21-6 at 158 as a starter and 3-2 in that one tournament at 167.

Edited by fishbane
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28 minutes ago, fishbane said:

It's interesting, if you look at his record for the year he is 13-9 on wrestling stats.  This includes 5 wins at NCAAs, so he should have been 8-9 going into NCAAs, which I think is correct. However, as you pointed out, if you add up the wins and losses from the individual matches he is 9-8.  Wrestlingstats is not consistent with the record it reports.  I think his record from Big 8s, where he finished 3rd, is correct, so the error must be in a regular season event.  Looking at the Lock Haven tournament he went 2-1 and lost to an OSU teammate, Parker.  This would be consistent with a 2nd or 3rd place finish, though it could also be that he defaulted out after losing in the championship bracket.  Since Parker is also a OSU wrestler, wrestling stats has his record available.  At the same tournament he went 4-2.  I suspect the error is in that Lock Haven tournament.  

Parker, the teammate that beat him in the Lock Haven tournament, had a wild season.  He met Branch in that tournament wrestling 167lbs and the week after wrestled in a dual against Oklahoma at 158.  He then wrestled 5 straight duals at 177 before wrestled against PSU at 167. Then it was back to 177 for 3 more duals, before jumping up again to 190 against Iowa.  He wrestled the final dual against OU at 190 and then bumped up again to 275 for Big 8s.  There he went 1-2, finishing 4th, and qualifying for NCAAs where he went 0-1.  For the year he was 8-14; 1-0 at 158, 4-3 at 167, 2-6 at 177, 0-2 at 190, and 1-3 at 275.  The year before he wrestled at 158 apart from the 1st tournament of the year where he wrestled 167.  In 1993, he was 21-6 at 158 as a starter and 3-2 in that one tournament at 167.

wrestling every weight from 158 through 275 in same season is pretty wild, and indicative of being a true team guy. What's the lightest you can weigh in and go at 275?  

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42 minutes ago, 11986 said:

wrestling every weight from 158 through 275 in same season is pretty wild, and indicative of being a true team guy. What's the lightest you can weigh in and go at 275?  

That is crazy...wrestling 5 weight classes in one season and beating the national champ in the process. More impressive than Dake's 4 titles at four different weight classes

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59 minutes ago, 11986 said:

wrestling every weight from 158 through 275 in same season is pretty wild, and indicative of being a true team guy. What's the lightest you can weigh in and go at 275?  

I'm not sure.  I think rule is that you can wrestle up one weight from where you weigh in.  So if you weigh in above 158, you could wrestle your weight, 167, and up one or 177.  If that is the rule he would have to weight in above 177, which would have put him as a 190lber and he could wrestle one up or 275. 

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