After Cael and Brands, is Mark Manning the best coach?

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

It seems like currently he is the best at maximizing his teams' talent without overreliance on NIL and the transfer portal to buy AAs.

[Lleynor]

I don’t know if I believe that Brands is #2. Iowa, the name, draws in recruits. Most of the recent top-level success on the mat, minus Lee, is from transfers. I just don’t see the development there. 

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, Lleynor said:

I don’t know if I believe that Brands is #2. Iowa, the name, draws in recruits. Most of the recent top-level success on the mat, minus Lee, is from transfers. I just don’t see the development there. 

Ayala has developed well and he is homegrown.

[GimJustafan]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

It seems like currently he is the best at maximizing his teams' talent without overreliance on NIL and the transfer portal to buy AAs.

i think coach Manning along with Coach Dresser both fit well into that category 

[Truzzcat]

Schwab, Pat pop, Brian Smith, Erisman, Ryan, Santoro would be my list in no order.

Edited 18 hours ago by Truzzcat

[Frank]

Brands isn’t #2 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Based on long term results

1. Sanderson
2. Brands
3. Ryan
4. Eggum
5. Smith
6. Manning

Based on recent results

1. Sanderson
2. Brands
3. Grey
4. Bormet
5. Smith
6. Manning

Edited 17 hours ago by Wrestleknownothing

[headshuck]

Only 1 coach developed a current Olympic gold medalist and 3-time Hodge winner.

[Wrestleknownothing]

3 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Only 1 coach developed a current Olympic gold medalist and 3-time Hodge winner.

Current? 3?

[headshuck]

Current? 3?

Whoops got a little ahead of myself. It is a CinniBun thread and we’re not supposed to take them too seriously.

[wrestle87]

Manning definitely is in the conversation for the #2.  Brands brothers are definitely #2 if not #1 in program management, which is a perpetually dismissed portion of a successful franchise.  

In football terms, they may not be in the conversation for being the best athlete developers, but they definitely are when it comes to the General Manager side of managing the program.  At this point, a part of keeping your program relevant is simply being continuously talked about.  It keeps butts in seats and dollars in your wallet.  And dollars are oxygen. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

22 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Whoops got a little ahead of myself. It is a CinniBun thread and we’re not supposed to take them too seriously.

Strong point

[BruceyB]

1 hour ago, wrestle87 said:

Manning definitely is in the conversation for the #2.  Brands brothers are definitely #2 if not #1 in program management, which is a perpetually dismissed portion of a successful franchise.  

In football terms, they may not be in the conversation for being the best athlete developers, but they definitely are when it comes to the General Manager side of managing the program.  At this point, a part of keeping your program relevant is simply being continuously talked about.  It keeps butts in seats and dollars in your wallet.  And dollars are oxygen. 

I could be the head coach of Iowa and they'd be the most talked about program because of their horrible coaching hire. Does that make me #2? We'd surely be talked about..

[Gus]

2 hours ago, Lleynor said:

I don’t know if I believe that Brands is #2. Iowa, the name, draws in recruits. Most of the recent top-level success on the mat, minus Lee, is from transfers. I just don’t see the development there. 

Tom has been at Iowa for like 20 years. You don't just luck into 20 years of success. He is obviously a great coach.

[wrestle87]

28 minutes ago, BruceyB said:

I could be the head coach of Iowa and they'd be the most talked about program because of their horrible coaching hire. Does that make me #2? We'd surely be talked about..

I really approached this incorrectly from a linguistic perspective, the Brands are a collective and you won't have nearly the success within the program without having both of them there. 

I think they're the #2 GM(s), probably #5 coaches from a development standpoint.  They're the #1 coaches for 125-133, but for the rest of the weights I put them around #10.  

Board enthusiasm aside, I don't think any of us have the connections or experience to run that program for a day.  We would also have to come up with capable doppelgangers while staying away from a bizarro-superman type outcome. 

[BruceyB]

19 minutes ago, wrestle87 said:

I really approached this incorrectly from a linguistic perspective, the Brands are a collective and you won't have nearly the success within the program without having both of them there. 

I think they're the #2 GM(s), probably #5 coaches from a development standpoint.  They're the #1 coaches for 125-133, but for the rest of the weights I put them around #10.  

Board enthusiasm aside, I don't think any of us have the connections or experience to run that program for a day.  We would also have to come up with capable doppelgangers while staying away from a bizarro-superman type outcome. 

I completely agree that they are the best coaches for 125-133. I don't see how anyone could deny that. I definitely would contest them as GM(s). They are not great recruiters, they consistently recruit over their current athletes, and have probably had more athletes leave their program than any other top tier team in the last decade. That isn't a shot at them as coaches, but I think it does say something about the GM skills. IIRC in their last 5 recruiting classes, only Ayala, Arnold, and Kueter are the only relevant wrestlers on their roster.

[Fadzaev2]

3 hours ago, headshuck said:

Only 1 coach developed a current Olympic gold medalist and 3-time Hodge winner.

?????? current Olympic Gold Medalist????  , and there has been a 4 time Hodge winner and a few two timers, but has there been a 3 timer??????

[wrestle87]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I completely agree that they are the best coaches for 125-133. I don't see how anyone could deny that. I definitely would contest them as GM(s). They are not great recruiters, they consistently recruit over their current athletes, and have probably had more athletes leave their program than any other top tier team in the last decade. That isn't a shot at them as coaches, but I think it does say something about the GM skills. IIRC in their last 5 recruiting classes, only Ayala, Arnold, and Kueter are the only relevant wrestlers on their roster.

These are some very valid points.  I think they may be the front runners in adopting the Deon Sanders recruiting guidelines, let guys prove themselves elsewhere then recruit them in the transfer portal once they have proven themselves. 

They've got a consistent enough track record of eligibility swiping that they may just be bleeding edge front-runners in this practice.  They know that good guys at small programs want to be respected and paid better.  Carver does that big time.  I don't know how long they'll be able to do it for, but this is sort of where we have to see ho NIL continues to shake out long term. 

[PortaJohn]

5 hours ago, headshuck said:

Only 1 coach developed a current Olympic gold medalist and 3-time Hodge winner.

Not to pile on but he is currently a former olympic gold medalist.  

[Spencerlee]

2 hours ago, BruceyB said:

I completely agree that they are the best coaches for 125-133. I don't see how anyone could deny that. I definitely would contest them as GM(s). They are not great recruiters, they consistently recruit over their current athletes, and have probably had more athletes leave their program than any other top tier team in the last decade. That isn't a shot at them as coaches, but I think it does say something about the GM skills. IIRC in their last 5 recruiting classes, only Ayala, Arnold, and Kueter are the only relevant wrestlers on their roster.

I’m assuming you mean post college wrestlers leaving Iowa, because Iowa has barely lost anyone of significance while they were in college.

[jchapman]

2 hours ago, Fadzaev2 said:

?????? current Olympic Gold Medalist????  , and there has been a 4 time Hodge winner and a few two timers, but has there been a 3 timer??????

Karl is a 3Xer.  Who is the 4Xer?

[BruceyB]

20 minutes ago, Spencerlee said:

I’m assuming you mean post college wrestlers leaving Iowa, because Iowa has barely lost anyone of significance while they were in college.

The wrestlers that have left the program are only "not of significance" because they were recruited over. Siebrecht, Glazier, Chittum, Rhodes, Wyatt Henson, etc. Look at the depth of the Iowa line-up. They burned a true freshman's redshirt because they didn't have anyone serviceable to go out at 157 when Teemer was out. I'm not discrediting the Brands coaching ability, but just saying that @wrestle87's statement about their ability as GM is questionable. It seems they are much better coaches than GM's especially when you consider their handling of Teske's seeding at B1G's the past couple years.

 

[headshuck]

Not to pile on but he is currently a former olympic gold medalist.  

Yeah I was hasty with the joke.

[Fadzaev2]

1 hour ago, jchapman said:

Karl is a 3Xer.  Who is the 4Xer?

I stand corrected....I misread the list.