Ben Askren - If you are high schooler who wants to go to Iowa, don't

[Wrestleknownothing]

The whole 15 minutes is entertaining, but if you just want to hear his justification for the statement go to the 10 minute mark.

[Hammerlock3]

He needs to calm down on the "I don't care what people think" drum beating. You look like you care dude.

[headshuck]

15 coulda been edited down to 3?

[Caveira]

How come no hate on sdsu or Iowa state or ou for taking transfers this late?   I don’t begrudge them for the record but seems the shade is only flying in one particular teams direction.   

[VakAttack]

Just a continuance of his previously held belief.  He's been pretty openly anti-Iowa for years.

[1032004]

I get what he’s saying but I think he’s wrong because I imagine recruits are going to start getting similar offers if they aren’t already.  The reason transfers are allegedly getting more than recruits is because the NIL craziness has pretty much just started.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

Is Ayala getting paid as much as Kyle Parco? If not, then Askren has a point.

Ayala has placed higher than Parco, has more years of eligibility remaining, and has been a Hawkeye from the start.  That certainly justifies being paid more than a 1 year rental like Parco who hasn't ever made a NCAA final.

Edited August 31 by Jimmy Cinnabon

[MNRodent]

8 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

I get what he’s saying but I think he’s wrong because I imagine recruits are going to start getting similar offers if they aren’t already.  The reason transfers are allegedly getting more than recruits is because the NIL craziness has pretty much just started.

Several of the wrestling media people have said that Iowa has already offered select high school recruits these amounts, but they just haven't accepted.

[ionel]

I've always said don't go to Iowa, glad Ben finally agrees. 

[Mr. PeanutButter]

25 minutes ago, Caveira said:

How come no hate on sdsu or Iowa state or ou for taking transfers this late?   I don’t begrudge them for the record but seems the shade is only flying in one particular teams direction.   

That wouldn't get clicks 

[CHROMEBIRD]

I see what Askren is saying, but a big shitty aspect in this age of NIL and transfer portal craziness is that coaches have to re-recruit their existing athletes every year. What's to keep a kid from enrolling at Iowa, getting great results, and then saying "hey, I have an offer to compete at another school. How much will you all pay me to stay?"

Sad to see it in college sports, but it is what it is.

[1032004]

11 minutes ago, MNRodent said:

Several of the wrestling media people have said that Iowa has already offered select high school recruits these amounts, but they just haven't accepted.

I only saw Minnow saying one wrestler said no, which I assume was referring to Lilledahl.  To me that (as well as the reported offers Iowa made to guys like Nagao) indicates that other schools are paying large amounts as well, even though they may be less than Iowa.

[Jimmy Cinnabon]

1 hour ago, CHROMEBIRD said:

I see what Askren is saying, but a big shitty aspect in this age of NIL and transfer portal craziness is that coaches have to re-recruit their existing athletes every year. What's to keep a kid from enrolling at Iowa, getting great results, and then saying "hey, I have an offer to compete at another school. How much will you all pay me to stay?"

Sad to see it in college sports, but it is what it is.

Well supposedly Nichols made a big offer to Luke Lilledahl despite him being committed to Penn State, so...

[PortaJohn]

First video I've ever seen where Ben looks like he doesn't have Dad Bod fat.

[CHROMEBIRD]

On 8/31/2024 at 11:30 AM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Well supposedly Nichols made a big offer to Luke Lilledahl despite him being committed to Penn State, so...

That has nothing to do with what I said, but great.

[Weight of the World]

It's time for new coaches.  The Brands can't develop talent.  Today the best in shape and taking 400 shots a match doesn't work.  If they want to hang with Penn ST and OK ST they better make a move.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, Weight of the World said:

It's time for new coaches.  The Brands can't develop talent.  Today the best in shape and taking 400 shots a match doesn't work.  If they want to hang with Penn ST and OK ST they better make a move.

You outed yourself as someone who has no idea what they are talking about in your own post.

Edited September 1 by Hammerlock3

[BAC]

Whatever you think of Askren, he's not entirely wrong here, and if anything may be understating the severity of Iowa's missteps here. A few related reasons:

1.  They will lose top high school recruits who view Iowa as overly disloyal, as Iowa is the first to hit "zero loyalty" threshold. Yes, there's been "recruiting over" before, but until now, there's always been a sense that, for wresters of a certain seniority and skill level, the coaching staff will be like "naw, I'm good" when transfers come knocking or donors are asking coaches on encrypted Telegram threads who to go after.  Glazier/Buchanan changes all that. The idea that a school would go out on the open market to try to financially lure in someone to displace a 5th year senior who had only 1 loss going into B1Gs is stunning. It means no one is safe. High school recruits will see this and know, for a fact, that unless you just won a national title, Iowa is going to be trying, every year, to pull in someone better than you. For the most part, other schools have used the portal to fill holes, but only Iowa has sought to use it to upgrade everywhere. As long as other top schools don't follow suit to the same extreme extent, that's going to push recruits away from Iowa, and be a huge recruiting advantage for their competition. 

2. This turn toward transfers and away from loyalty is especially harmful to Iowa, which historically has been so reliant on their branding to lure in recruits.  Come to Iowa for the "Iowa style," Iowa once said.  "Oh that Johnny, he really wrestles the Iowa Style, he'd be great for them," wrestlers hear.  But not anymore. They can't say that's their brand when they just have a hodge-podge of guys from different programs who each wrestler their own pre-developed style, most of which don't really mesh with Iowa in any particular way. Kids might go to Iowa because they fare well, but their branding, already eroding, is down the tube. They're losing their cache and sales pitch.

3.  Ben was right to cite the loss of culture, too.  It's the difference between a bunch of close-knit guys who came up from the farm system, and a bunch of guys who came on as free agents.  They just aren't going to be that tight, with no sense of solidarity or brotherhood.  Recruits doing their on-campus visits won't see the camaraderie, and existing guys will find easier to leave without feeling bad or nostalgic.  (As is clearly the case with 5 leaving in 3 days.)  I suspect the guys that remain will be that much harder to coach, too, as these aren't guys who have "bought in" on the Iowa way or the Tom/Terry coaching style. They are guys who are bought and paid for, and have no reason to care much about what Tom/Terry have to say.  They'll yammer on about what it means to put on a black and gold singlet, and these guys will just laugh.

4. Iowa's spending is also too high on transfers relative to existing athletes. It isn't sustainable. I have no idea if the money being speculated on Twitter is accurate (e.g. $500K each for Parco, Teemer, Buchanan), but as some have pointed out, now guys like Ayala are going to look since they're being paid a fraction of that. That means you aren't just losing the guys at the weights where you recruited over them, you're also losing top guys at other weights who feel they aren't being treated fairly.  

5.  Admittedly, none of points 1-4 really matter if they have the bankroll to turn Iowa into the New York Yankees every season, buying a near-full roster every year.  But the money won't be there forever.  As I understand it, it's pretty much coming from one guy, and he's a pretty shady dude as it is. What happens when his money runs out or he crosses one too many lines, whether in recruiting or in any other seedy dealings? Iowa isn't nearly as flush with alumni money as many other schools.  When that money dries up, then what?  They'll need to rebuild their brand, their culture, the illusion of loyalty all over again, from scratch. Have fun with that.

This whole thing reminds me of the Ferrari fiasco from last year:  sacrificing integrity on the altar of winning, compromising whatever principles are needed to get ahead.  At least AJ saved them before that went too far.  But I don't think there's any saving Iowa from themselves this time.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

On 8/31/2024 at 1:13 PM, Jimmy Cinnabon said:

Is Ayala getting paid as much as Kyle Parco? If not, then Askren has a point.

Ayala has placed higher than Parco, has more years of eligibility remaining, and has been a Hawkeye from the start.  That certainly justifies being paid more than a 1 year rental like Parco who hasn't ever made a NCAA final.

Parco's mom isn't as annoying as Drake's.

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

3 hours ago, Weight of the World said:

It's time for new coaches.  The Brands can't develop talent.  Today the best in shape and taking 400 shots a match doesn't work.  If they want to hang with Penn ST and OK ST they better make a move.

Oklahoma State? Iowa crushed them in the dual last year and they are the only team with more transfers than Iowa.  Nice try/

[Interviewed_at_Weehawken]

2 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

You outed yourself as someone who has no idea what they are talking about in your own post.

That and his post count of 2.

[Hammerlock3]

1 hour ago, BAC said:

Whatever you think of Askren, he's not entirely wrong here, and if anything may be understating the severity of Iowa's missteps here. A few related reasons:

1.  They will lose top high school recruits who view Iowa as overly disloyal, as Iowa is the first to hit "zero loyalty" threshold. Yes, there's been "recruiting over" before, but until now, there's always been a sense that, for wresters of a certain seniority and skill level, the coaching staff will be like "naw, I'm good" when transfers come knocking or donors are asking coaches on encrypted Telegram threads who to go after.  Glazier/Buchanan changes all that. The idea that a school would go out on the open market to try to financially lure in someone to displace a 5th year senior who had only 1 loss going into B1Gs is stunning. It means no one is safe. High school recruits will see this and know, for a fact, that unless you just won a national title, Iowa is going to be trying, every year, to pull in someone better than you. For the most part, other schools have used the portal to fill holes, but only Iowa has sought to use it to upgrade everywhere. As long as other top schools don't follow suit to the same extreme extent, that's going to push recruits away from Iowa, and be a huge recruiting advantage for their competition. 

2. This turn toward transfers and away from loyalty is especially harmful to Iowa, which historically has been so reliant on their branding to lure in recruits.  Come to Iowa for the "Iowa style," Iowa once said.  "Oh that Johnny, he really wrestles the Iowa Style, he'd be great for them," wrestlers hear.  But not anymore. They can't say that's their brand when they just have a hodge-podge of guys from different programs who each wrestler their own pre-developed style, most of which don't really mesh with Iowa in any particular way. Kids might go to Iowa because they fare well, but their branding, already eroding, is down the tube. They're losing their cache and sales pitch.

3.  Ben was right to cite the loss of culture, too.  It's the difference between a bunch of close-knit guys who came up from the farm system, and a bunch of guys who came on as free agents.  They just aren't going to be that tight, with no sense of solidarity or brotherhood.  Recruits doing their on-campus visits won't see the camaraderie, and existing guys will find easier to leave without feeling bad or nostalgic.  (As is clearly the case with 5 leaving in 3 days.)  I suspect the guys that remain will be that much harder to coach, too, as these aren't guys who have "bought in" on the Iowa way or the Tom/Terry coaching style. They are guys who are bought and paid for, and have no reason to care much about what Tom/Terry have to say.  They'll yammer on about what it means to put on a black and gold singlet, and these guys will just laugh.

4. Iowa's spending is also too high on transfers relative to existing athletes. It isn't sustainable. I have no idea if the money being speculated on Twitter is accurate (e.g. $500K each for Parco, Teemer, Buchanan), but as some have pointed out, now guys like Ayala are going to look since they're being paid a fraction of that. That means you aren't just losing the guys at the weights where you recruited over them, you're also losing top guys at other weights who feel they aren't being treated fairly.  

5.  Admittedly, none of points 1-4 really matter if they have the bankroll to turn Iowa into the New York Yankees every season, buying a near-full roster every year.  But the money won't be there forever.  As I understand it, it's pretty much coming from one guy, and he's a pretty shady dude as it is. What happens when his money runs out or he crosses one too many lines, whether in recruiting or in any other seedy dealings? Iowa isn't nearly as flush with alumni money as many other schools.  When that money dries up, then what?  They'll need to rebuild their brand, their culture, the illusion of loyalty all over again, from scratch. Have fun with that.

This whole thing reminds me of the Ferrari fiasco from last year:  sacrificing integrity on the altar of winning, compromising whatever principles are needed to get ahead.  At least AJ saved them before that went too far.  But I don't think there's any saving Iowa from themselves this time.

no one is reading all that.

[boconnell]

7 hours ago, Weight of the World said:

It's time for new coaches.  The Brands can't develop talent.  Today the best in shape and taking 400 shots a match doesn't work.  If they want to hang with Penn ST and OK ST they better make a move.

If coaches should be removed for failing to hang with PSU, then fire everybody in the country.  

[alex1fly]

15 hours ago, BAC said:

Whatever you think of Askren, he's not entirely wrong here, and if anything may be understating the severity of Iowa's missteps here. A few related reasons:

1.  They will lose top high school recruits who view Iowa as overly disloyal, as Iowa is the first to hit "zero loyalty" threshold. Yes, there's been "recruiting over" before, but until now, there's always been a sense that, for wresters of a certain seniority and skill level, the coaching staff will be like "naw, I'm good" when transfers come knocking or donors are asking coaches on encrypted Telegram threads who to go after.  Glazier/Buchanan changes all that. The idea that a school would go out on the open market to try to financially lure in someone to displace a 5th year senior who had only 1 loss going into B1Gs is stunning. It means no one is safe. High school recruits will see this and know, for a fact, that unless you just won a national title, Iowa is going to be trying, every year, to pull in someone better than you. For the most part, other schools have used the portal to fill holes, but only Iowa has sought to use it to upgrade everywhere. As long as other top schools don't follow suit to the same extreme extent, that's going to push recruits away from Iowa, and be a huge recruiting advantage for their competition. 

2. This turn toward transfers and away from loyalty is especially harmful to Iowa, which historically has been so reliant on their branding to lure in recruits.  Come to Iowa for the "Iowa style," Iowa once said.  "Oh that Johnny, he really wrestles the Iowa Style, he'd be great for them," wrestlers hear.  But not anymore. They can't say that's their brand when they just have a hodge-podge of guys from different programs who each wrestler their own pre-developed style, most of which don't really mesh with Iowa in any particular way. Kids might go to Iowa because they fare well, but their branding, already eroding, is down the tube. They're losing their cache and sales pitch.

3.  Ben was right to cite the loss of culture, too.  It's the difference between a bunch of close-knit guys who came up from the farm system, and a bunch of guys who came on as free agents.  They just aren't going to be that tight, with no sense of solidarity or brotherhood.  Recruits doing their on-campus visits won't see the camaraderie, and existing guys will find easier to leave without feeling bad or nostalgic.  (As is clearly the case with 5 leaving in 3 days.)  I suspect the guys that remain will be that much harder to coach, too, as these aren't guys who have "bought in" on the Iowa way or the Tom/Terry coaching style. They are guys who are bought and paid for, and have no reason to care much about what Tom/Terry have to say.  They'll yammer on about what it means to put on a black and gold singlet, and these guys will just laugh.

4. Iowa's spending is also too high on transfers relative to existing athletes. It isn't sustainable. I have no idea if the money being speculated on Twitter is accurate (e.g. $500K each for Parco, Teemer, Buchanan), but as some have pointed out, now guys like Ayala are going to look since they're being paid a fraction of that. That means you aren't just losing the guys at the weights where you recruited over them, you're also losing top guys at other weights who feel they aren't being treated fairly.  

5.  Admittedly, none of points 1-4 really matter if they have the bankroll to turn Iowa into the New York Yankees every season, buying a near-full roster every year.  But the money won't be there forever.  As I understand it, it's pretty much coming from one guy, and he's a pretty shady dude as it is. What happens when his money runs out or he crosses one too many lines, whether in recruiting or in any other seedy dealings? Iowa isn't nearly as flush with alumni money as many other schools.  When that money dries up, then what?  They'll need to rebuild their brand, their culture, the illusion of loyalty all over again, from scratch. Have fun with that.

This whole thing reminds me of the Ferrari fiasco from last year:  sacrificing integrity on the altar of winning, compromising whatever principles are needed to get ahead.  At least AJ saved them before that went too far.  But I don't think there's any saving Iowa from themselves this time.

This is one of the more thoughtful things I’ve read on here. Thanks! What a mess lol. Or not… time will tell

[alex1fly]

13 hours ago, Hammerlock3 said:

no one is reading all that.

Ahahahahaha I thought it was a great read. 

Edited September 2 by alex1fly