Chicago Mayor Sues Kia and Automakers

[BobDole]

18 hours ago, mspart said:

https://news.wttw.com/2023/08/21/motor-vehicle-thefts-chicago-have-jumped-139-3-years-while-only-4-are-solved

...  And according to CPD statistics, most thieves get away with the initial crime. Last year, the clearance rate for solving motor vehicle thefts was a paltry 4%.

Sources close to CPD say the department de-emphasizes solving these types of crimes to devote more resources to more serious crimes.

The last paragraph seems to answer the question that was burning before in this thread.   "... CPD de-emphasizes solving these types of crimes...".   So do they go after the car thieves?   Apparently, police de-emphasize this effort.   So rates for stolen vehicles climbs.   All very predictable.

mspart

 

So they are going after car thieves, just not at the rate you would like them to.

Unfortunately car thieves are rarely caught or even prosecuted. In Milwaukee they only caught 11% of the car thieves and prosecuted a paltry 5%.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/mkes-stolen-car-epidemic-11-of-car-thefts-result-in-arrest-5-prosecuted-in-record-year

 

 

[jross]

In other news

• Car Glass Breaker manufacturer sued for its use in breaking windows by thieves
• Cutco manufacturer sued for its use in a murder
• Oakley sued for making people overconfident
• Nike sued for tripping hazards as their shoelaces are too long and prone to becoming undone
• Huffy sued for making fast getaway vehicles
• Garmin and Apple sued due to increase in stalking complaints

[mspart]

1 hour ago, BobDole said:

So they are going after car thieves, just not at the rate you would like them to.

Unfortunately car thieves are rarely caught or even prosecuted. In Milwaukee they only caught 11% of the car thieves and prosecuted a paltry 5%.

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/mkes-stolen-car-epidemic-11-of-car-thefts-result-in-arrest-5-prosecuted-in-record-year

 

 

Thank you BD for confirming my original posts here.  They are not pursuing car theft, and when they do, they hold less than 50% of those caught accountable.   That there really drives home to would be car thieves that the cost to car thievery is zero for them.   Hence, more car thievery. 

mspart

[ionel]

https://www.10tv.com/article/news/crime/ohio-state-wrestler-sammy-sasso-shooting-arrests/530-d2f545cd-b874-45e6-a66a-a03e357cc9ed

Here's a case where they did pursue and catch the "car theives" although not clear if they'd actually stolen the (or a) car.  Also not reported that any KIAs or Hyundai were involved.  The alleged thief/shooter had just been released Aug 13.  The other alleged thief had been in violation of GPS tracking device.  Sad situation all around, a 16 and 15 year old but its been reported that this is a new strategy for criminals, get the teenagers to conduct the crime because they will be released quickly.  Of course we know the rest of the story, it wasn't just about the car. 

[Wrestleknownothing]

13 minutes ago, mspart said:

Thank you BD for confirming my original posts here.  They are not pursuing car theft, and when they do, they hold less than 50% of those caught accountable.   That there really drives home to would be car thieves that the cost to car thievery is zero for them.   Hence, more car thievery. 

mspart

You guys act like there are no denominators, just numerators. Before the video showing the lack of immobilizers went viral there were over 500 Kias and Hyundais stolen in Chicago over a 6 month span. In the 6 months following there were 8,350. 

Just because the thefts go up by 1,570% does not mean police resources go up by even 1%. If you want good policing, you better invest in good prevention. But you guys would rather just bitch and moan when someone tries to do something, to add to your bitching and moaning when they don't.

[BobDole]

22 minutes ago, mspart said:

Thank you BD for confirming my original posts here.  They are not pursuing car theft, and when they do, they hold less than 50% of those caught accountable.   That there really drives home to would be car thieves that the cost to car thievery is zero for them.   Hence, more car thievery. 

mspart

Prosecuting car theft is extremely low across the WHOLE county, this is NOT a Chicago thing like you want to make it out to be.

The funny thing is you have no clue, well not funny, but truthful. Guess how many burglaries get prosecuted across the county? You won't like that number either.

Everyone would love for 100% of the crimes to be prosecuted and the criminals found guilty and thrown in jail, but the reality is most crimes never even lead to an arrest. Well that is unless you try to overthrow an election.

[ionel]

2 minutes ago, Wrestleknownothing said:

You guys act like there are no denominators, just numerators. Before the video showing the lack of immobilizers went viral there were over 500 Kias and Hyundais stolen in Chicago over a 6 month span. In the 6 months following there were 8,350. 

Just because the thefts go up by 1,570% does not mean police resources go up by even 1%. If you want good policing, you better invest in good prevention. But you guys would rather just bitch and moan when someone tries to do something, to add to your bitching and moaning when they don't.

Why isn't Chicago suing Facebook, YouTube, etc?

And yes I do know why ... just trying to provide a little more moan.   

[BobDole]

1 minute ago, ionel said:

Why isn't Chicago suing Facebook, YouTube, etc?

And yes I do know why ... just trying to provide a little more moan.   

Ask the mayor about that, not us.

[ionel]

14 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Ask the mayor about that, not us.

We could've saved ourselves 4 pages if someone had the insight to suggest such back on page 1.  

[Wrestleknownothing]

19 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Ask the mayor about that, not us.

Section 230

[mspart]

3 minutes ago, BobDole said:

Prosecuting car theft is extremely low across the WHOLE county, this is NOT a Chicago thing like you want to make it out to be.

The funny thing is you have no clue, well not funny, but truthful. Guess how many burglaries get prosecuted across the county? You won't like that number either.

Everyone would love for 100% of the crimes to be prosecuted and the criminals found guilty and thrown in jail, but the reality is most crimes never even lead to an arrest. Well that is unless you try to overthrow an election.

The age of defund the police has brought us this.    They are overwhelmed because of being understaffed and have to prioritize.   Meanwhile, the crimes keep increasing.  And the prosecutors keep on no prosecuting as noted in your previous post. 

Here in WA, an Uber driver was shot and killed in a carjacking, and his car stolen by an 18 year old.   She took the car and went and had her hair done and cruised with friends. 

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/police-arrest-18-year-old-woman-after-uber-driver-killed-during-seattle-carjacking

According to court documents, she did not go to a hospital for any believed injuries and instead drove his Prius around for two and a half days. Documents said she visited family in Skyway, smoked pot in Rainier Beach, put gas in the tank in Renton and drove to Kent to get her hair done. 

I must point out that it is illegal for an 18 year old to buy a gun.   It is illegal to use a gun in a murder.   It is illegal to kill someone in a carjacking.  It is illegal to carjack.   When the crime is great enough, police can track the perp.   She is under a $2 million bail.   Well deserved.   She killed a guy and felt nothing.   Hopefully she goes away for a long time.   But around here, she will probably not.  Good thing she is 18 and can be prosecuted as an adult.  

In other news, 5 kids in a car rammed another car from behind, and stole that guy's car at the point of a gun.    3 of the 5 went into the stolen car and drove off fast passing a cop car.   Cop turned around but before he could chase the car crashed.   Ages of occupants were 15-17.   One of them will not have another birthday to celebrate.   The other two are badly maimed.   Will they be prosecuted, probably not as they are minors.   All in Black Diamond, a small little community without a grocery store.   You can read more here:   https://www.kentreporter.com/northwest/one-juvenile-killed-two-injured-in-black-diamond-single-car-crash/

Commander Brian Martinez with the Black Diamond Police Department (BDPD) said crimes involving teens are increasing in their city and others.

“There has to be some way within the system that we could help these kids and get them on the right path where they’re not committing these types of crimes.”

Martinez said, “I think accountability goes a long way from a juvenile to an adult. When people commit crimes, they have to be held accountable,” Martinez said, “I feel that’s a deterrence in itself. But when you have a revolving door either at a juvenile system or an adult system, and these offenders know this, they’re going to recommit.”

But these are just anecdotes and should not be considered as symptomatic in any way.   I know that because the article at the beginning of this thread did not explicitly say that. 

mspart

 

[ionel]

https://puhfer.pw/uk/california-thieves-steal-wallet-and-keys-from-councilmember-while-he-was-speaking-to-the-public-about-crime-196159.html

In other news Gov Newsom and the state of California are suing Topeak for not providing a 256-bit encryption lock on their bike bags. 

[BobDole]

11 minutes ago, mspart said:

The age of defund the police has brought us this.    They are overwhelmed because of being understaffed and have to prioritize.   Meanwhile, the crimes keep increasing.  And the prosecutors keep on no prosecuting as noted in your previous post. 

Here in WA, an Uber driver was shot and killed in a carjacking, and his car stolen by an 18 year old.   She took the car and went and had her hair done and cruised with friends. 

https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/police-arrest-18-year-old-woman-after-uber-driver-killed-during-seattle-carjacking

According to court documents, she did not go to a hospital for any believed injuries and instead drove his Prius around for two and a half days. Documents said she visited family in Skyway, smoked pot in Rainier Beach, put gas in the tank in Renton and drove to Kent to get her hair done. 

I must point out that it is illegal for an 18 year old to buy a gun.   It is illegal to use a gun in a murder.   It is illegal to kill someone in a carjacking.  It is illegal to carjack.   When the crime is great enough, police can track the perp.   She is under a $2 million bail.   Well deserved.   She killed a guy and felt nothing.   Hopefully she goes away for a long time.   But around here, she will probably not.  Good thing she is 18 and can be prosecuted as an adult.  

In other news, 5 kids in a car rammed another car from behind, and stole that guy's car at the point of a gun.    3 of the 5 went into the stolen car and drove off fast passing a cop car.   Cop turned around but before he could chase the car crashed.   Ages of occupants were 15-17.   One of them will not have another birthday to celebrate.   The other two are badly maimed.   Will they be prosecuted, probably not as they are minors.   All in Black Diamond, a small little community without a grocery store.   You can read more here:   https://www.kentreporter.com/northwest/one-juvenile-killed-two-injured-in-black-diamond-single-car-crash/

Commander Brian Martinez with the Black Diamond Police Department (BDPD) said crimes involving teens are increasing in their city and others.

“There has to be some way within the system that we could help these kids and get them on the right path where they’re not committing these types of crimes.”

Martinez said, “I think accountability goes a long way from a juvenile to an adult. When people commit crimes, they have to be held accountable,” Martinez said, “I feel that’s a deterrence in itself. But when you have a revolving door either at a juvenile system or an adult system, and these offenders know this, they’re going to recommit.”

But these are just anecdotes and should not be considered as symptomatic in any way.   I know that because the article at the beginning of this thread did not explicitly say that. 

mspart

 

Shocking there are gruesome crimes going on everywhere! Thanks for bringing that up! This is definitely news to me.

[Bigbrog]

Maybe this would be a better discussion, or at least know where people stand.

Who thinks crime is a major problem in the US and should be a priority for our politicians?

[MPhillips]

12 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Maybe this would be a better discussion

Not likely...

[mspart]

16 minutes ago, Bigbrog said:

Maybe this would be a better discussion, or at least know where people stand.

Who thinks crime is a major problem in the US and should be a priority for our politicians?

I think the disconnect here is that we have one group saying there is a problem and proposing ideas to fix, while the other group is denying there is a problem or that the problem is not as bad as it seems, or minimizing the impact of the effects on people and their lives as the victims of crime.  

I just came to this realization.   I say, crime is bad and it should be prosecuted and others chime in and say what crime?, or say crime rates haven't changed over the last few years, or say I'm blowing this all out of proportion. 

When a Mayor says they have an epidemic of car thefts and his solution is to sue the car manufacturers and not say he is going after the perps, that tells me he does not really care about the car thievery and its effect on his city, but he wants to be seen as doing something.  Why not fulfill your social compact of protecting the citizens and do something real?   And oh, the attacks this brings out - Oh, he never said he wasn't going after them, he just said he was suing.   To which I say where is the language that this conduct will not be tolerated any longer?  In the same breath he says he is suing car makers, he should also say "and we are cracking down on car thieves and they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law", very easy to do but that is not his MO, .................  AND EVERYONE ON HERE KNOWS THIS!!!!!   Yet still we get those that minimize this and say it isn't as bad, or it isn't worse, or anything.   When you have a 1000% percent increase in car crime, that is not a difference of opinion.   That is bad, and it is worse, and it is a blight on civilized society.   And it is fueled by complacence on the part of the city councils and the justice system which have stopped doing their job.   

Why is this happening now, and not 5 years ago?   Because of defund the police that happened just a few years ago and the depletion of police from the ranks as they escape the onerous woke policies that allow perps to do crime and not be punished.   This is the exact reason San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin was recalled and booted out of office.   It wasn't because he did his job, that's for sure.  

This is the equity justice mantra that goes on now which effectively allows for misbehavior on the part of historically discriminated people.   That was Chesa Boudin's MO.   And clearly it doesn't work.  

Here in Seattle, homegrown pharmacy, Bartell's, just announced it is closing it's last 24 hour pharmacy.   Thanks to the wink and nod to shoplifters, Seattle will no longer have 24 hour pharmacy service.   Unless a shoplifter is stealing more than $750 of stuff which is felony shoplifting, nothing is done.   Which is why people walk out brazenly carrying TVs etc.   No enforcement of laws means those laws are not laws on the street.   They may be laws on paper but without enforcement, they are null and void. 

So honestly, I can point out things and the usual suspects here will argue that none of it is true, it is not as bad as it seems, or the same is happening in another town or I'm just off my rocker, when what I point out is demonstrably true and they are in denial as a matter of politics.   These are not R and D issues.   The issue of crime is a humanitarian issue, it knows not R and D or politics. 

Is crime not rising as we can see with our eyes, or is crime reporting not rising because "what's the point"?   Nothing will happen.   Oh and then when the perps get shot for their misbehavior then all those on here that minimize the issue will want that person's head on a platter, even though that person was the one wronged.   It is completely backwards these days and the fact that there are those that refuse to see it only makes the situation worse.  

mspart

[BobDole]

1 hour ago, Bigbrog said:

Maybe this would be a better discussion, or at least know where people stand.

Who thinks crime is a major problem in the US and should be a priority for our politicians?

I would rather just make stuff up in my mind and then form stupid opinions. What's the fun in looking at facts?

[BobDole]

22 minutes ago, mspart said:

I think the disconnect here is that we have one group saying there is a problem and proposing ideas to fix, while the other group is denying there is a problem or that the problem is not as bad as it seems, or minimizing the impact of the effects on people and their lives as the victims of crime.  

I just came to this realization.   I say, crime is bad and it should be prosecuted and others chime in and say what crime?, or say crime rates haven't changed over the last few years, or say I'm blowing this all out of proportion. 

When a Mayor says they have an epidemic of car thefts and his solution is to sue the car manufacturers and not say he is going after the perps, that tells me he does not really care about the car thievery and its effect on his city, but he wants to be seen as doing something.  Why not fulfill your social compact of protecting the citizens and do something real?   And oh, the attacks this brings out - Oh, he never said he wasn't going after them, he just said he was suing.   To which I say where is the language that this conduct will not be tolerated any longer?  In the same breath he says he is suing car makers, he should also say "and we are cracking down on car thieves and they will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law", very easy to do but that is not his MO, .................  AND EVERYONE ON HERE KNOWS THIS!!!!!   Yet still we get those that minimize this and say it isn't as bad, or it isn't worse, or anything.   When you have a 1000% percent increase in car crime, that is not a difference of opinion.   That is bad, and it is worse, and it is a blight on civilized society.   And it is fueled by complacence on the part of the city councils and the justice system which have stopped doing their job.   

Why is this happening now, and not 5 years ago?   Because of defund the police that happened just a few years ago and the depletion of police from the ranks as they escape the onerous woke policies that allow perps to do crime and not be punished.   This is the exact reason San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin was recalled and booted out of office.   It wasn't because he did his job, that's for sure.  

This is the equity justice mantra that goes on now which effectively allows for misbehavior on the part of historically discriminated people.   That was Chesa Boudin's MO.   And clearly it doesn't work.  

Here in Seattle, homegrown pharmacy, Bartell's, just announced it is closing it's last 24 hour pharmacy.   Thanks to the wink and nod to shoplifters, Seattle will no longer have 24 hour pharmacy service.   Unless a shoplifter is stealing more than $750 of stuff which is felony shoplifting, nothing is done.   Which is why people walk out brazenly carrying TVs etc.   No enforcement of laws means those laws are not laws on the street.   They may be laws on paper but without enforcement, they are null and void. 

So honestly, I can point out things and the usual suspects here will argue that none of it is true, it is not as bad as it seems, or the same is happening in another town or I'm just off my rocker, when what I point out is demonstrably true and they are in denial as a matter of politics.   These are not R and D issues.   The issue of crime is a humanitarian issue, it knows not R and D or politics. 

Is crime not rising as we can see with our eyes, or is crime reporting not rising because "what's the point"?   Nothing will happen.   Oh and then when the perps get shot for their misbehavior then all those on here that minimize the issue will want that person's head on a platter, even though that person was the one wronged.   It is completely backwards these days and the fact that there are those that refuse to see it only makes the situation worse.  

mspart

So many made up statements that you think are facts. You are lost in your own world, well sadly not your own world because many others think the way you do.

[mspart]

1 hour ago, BobDole said:

So many made up statements that you think are facts. You are lost in your own world, well sadly not your own world because many others think the way you do.

MANY others think the way I do?   Wouldn't that be an indication to you that something is wrong?  That's an interesting statement, you have just stated that just about half the country has no clue what is going on with that statement.   Do you think that is actually a fact?   Wouldn't that indicate that there are people concerned with a real thing?   https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_becc17fe-8c42-11ed-95cb-efd640e88add.html

Jan 2023 - Gallup released the poll that shows that 72% of surveyed Americans predict crime rates will increase, not decrease, this year.

That figure comes after an earlier poll showed a record-high 56% of Americans said crime is higher where they live than it was a year ago.

Are all these poll responders as cracked as I am?   They must be if you are correct.  I think when majorities are concerned, you should look at your position a little more carefully. 

Please illuminate me.  What did I say that is not factual?   Don't be shy.   You definitely are on the side of poo poo-ing the collapse of modern society as evidenced by what is going on that I have brought up.   Is this really the world you want your kids or grandkids to inherit?   No I don't think so.  

On to the facts that are not facts, there are just so many:

1.  That Chesa Boudin was relieved of his duty?   Is that made up?

2.  The car crash in Black Diamond?   Is that made up or is a kid really dead and two others really mangled?

3.  The Mayor of Chicago is not too interested in effective policing?  Is that made up? I think that is clear based on his own statements.  But you are welcome to show me I'm wrong on this with something positive that is documented. 

4.  Bartells closing their last 24 hour pharmacy in Seattle?   Is that made up?   It's not and I can show you like I showed the Black Diamond incident was real.  

The list goes on I'm sure.   You have insinuated I don't know what I'm talking about.   Here is your chance to PROVE it with real information that I cannot refute.  A simple "Not worth my time" or other refusal to do so constitutes abdication of your position.   Non response is the same.   You have taken plenty of time to say I'm wrong, now take the time to prove it.  It should be really easy for you to do, the info should be at your fingertips.   

mspart

[Plasmodium]

21 hours ago, mspart said:

MANY others think the way I do?   Wouldn't that be an indication to you that something is wrong?  That's an interesting statement, you have just stated that just about half the country has no clue what is going on with that statement.   Do you think that is actually a fact?   Wouldn't that indicate that there are people concerned with a real thing?   https://www.thecentersquare.com/national/article_becc17fe-8c42-11ed-95cb-efd640e88add.html

Jan 2023 - Gallup released the poll that shows that 72% of surveyed Americans predict crime rates will increase, not decrease, this year.

That figure comes after an earlier poll showed a record-high 56% of Americans said crime is higher where they live than it was a year ago.

Are all these poll responders as cracked as I am?   They must be if you are correct.  I think when majorities are concerned, you should look at your position a little more carefully. 

Please illuminate me.  What did I say that is not factual?   Don't be shy.   You definitely are on the side of poo poo-ing the collapse of modern society as evidenced by what is going on that I have brought up.   Is this really the world you want your kids or grandkids to inherit?   No I don't think so.  

On to the facts that are not facts, there are just so many:

1.  That Chesa Boudin was relieved of his duty?   Is that made up?

2.  The car crash in Black Diamond?   Is that made up or is a kid really dead and two others really mangled?

3.  The Mayor of Chicago is not too interested in effective policing?  Is that made up? I think that is clear based on his own statements.  But you are welcome to show me I'm wrong on this with something positive that is documented. 

4.  Bartells closing their last 24 hour pharmacy in Seattle?   Is that made up?   It's not and I can show you like I showed the Black Diamond incident was real.  

The list goes on I'm sure.   You have insinuated I don't know what I'm talking about.   Here is your chance to PROVE it with real information that I cannot refute.  A simple "Not worth my time" or other refusal to do so constitutes abdication of your position.   Non response is the same.   You have taken plenty of time to say I'm wrong, now take the time to prove it.  It should be really easy for you to do, the info should be at your fingertips.   

mspart

1. Why aren't you happy about Chesa Boudin being recalled?  I would have guessed that pleases you.

2. The dead and injured are the suspects.  Sad, but they did it to themselves.  Interestingly, they stole a Hyundai which is the lawsuit OP is shaking his head at.

3. Been on the job ten weeks, he looks like he wants to solve crime by attacking poverty rather than with police.  That is a tough row to hoe.

4. Bartells was bought by Rite Aid which subsequently declared bankruptcy,  the Bartells in question had their lease expire and rent jacked up.

 

[mspart]

1 hour ago, Plasmodium said:

1. Why aren't you happy about Chesa Boudin being recalled?  I would have guessed that pleases you.

2. The dead and injured are the suspects.  Sad, but they did it to themselves.  Interestingly, they stole a Hyundai which is the lawsuit OP is shaking his head at.

3. Been on the job ten weeks, he looks like he wants to solve crime by attacking poverty rather than with police.  That is a tough row to hoe.

4. Bartells was bought by Rite Aid which subsequently declared bankruptcy,  the Bartells in question had their lease expire and rent jacked up.

 

1.  Chesa Boudin being fired pleases me but more so pleases the good people of San Fransisco.

2.  You saying they did it to themselves is correct.   They did not use a screwdriver and a USB cord to steal the car.   They did it at gunpoint.  The kids did it at gunpoint. 

3.  He's trying to fight crime by suing car manufacturers is what I get out of it rather than going after the perps.  10 weeks in is enough time to enact a policy.   Attacking poverty?   How's that working for him?  Hopefully it starts to work soon.   But getting tough on crime would get closer to the mark.  

4.  This is the 6th Bartell's location to close in the last year in Seattle.   They are not closing elsewhere.   I don't think anything but theft is the reason here.   We still have Bartells' locations where I live.  A store cannot continue to operate if they are losing money to shoplifting and theft.  I don't blame them for closing.   It is the times we live in.  

Walmart is no longer in Portland due to theft.   If there was a company that could absorb losses it is walmart and they couldn't stand it anymore.   REI has a flagship store in Portland that they are leaving due to crime.   Nordstroms is leaving a 5 floor layout in SF due to crime.   Westfield is no longer paying the lease on their SF mall.   The biggest hotel in SF is closing up due to crime.    Rather than work on poverty, perhaps the Chicago Mayor could start working on safety which would be a faster approach to fix what ails Chicago.   NYC did it back a few decades ago and it was a fairly quick transformation. 

These things weren't happening 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago like they are now.   My thesis, (and I've been told many people are with me on this) is that city councils have not made public safety and law enforcement a priority.   And we very clearly see the results. 

mspart

[ionel]

24 minutes ago, mspart said:

 

  We still have Bartells' locations where I live.  

 

In the woods?  Ok ... I'm narrowing in on it ... east of Seattle in the woods near a Bartells. 

[mspart]

Oooooooh, paying attention!!   I only said not west of Seattle.   There are lots of woods N, E, and S of Seattle. 

mspart

[ionel]

57 minutes ago, mspart said:

Oooooooh, paying attention!!   I only said not west of Seattle.   There are lots of woods N, E, and S of Seattle. 

mspart

darn it!

[mspart]

But your pluck is noteworthy.  

mspart